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Plane crashed into WTC?

 
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What do you do with the culprits? Put them in jail for life? Just like the guy was caught with a pile of drugs? Do you execute him? He is willing to give up his life anyways. Do you hide your head under the covers because the punishment will never fit the crime? Do you nuke everyone associated with the culprits and everything within a 10 mile radius as Tony says? What is the appropriate punishment?
Jamie
 
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well, let me expand...
neutron bombs sent blindly into a country is not the answer... a "surgical" attack is necessary, and will happen. that is, if we can prove who is responsible.
if we can prove bin laden had something to do with it, then we will just bomb his training camps in afghanastan.
however, like john said, God help the country behind this... if there is one and not just an individual terrorist group.
then again, afghanastan has been harboring bin laden for many years now, and turning their back to his training camps, so they are indirectly responsible for it.
 
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Well, we executed McVeigh for doing basically the same thing.
Of course THEY are already dead. I say execute their cohorts as accessories.
 
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Originally posted by Cindy Glass:
Tony, Chill down.
This is a horrible thing that has happened. But dropping Neutron bombs on other innocent people is NOT the solution.
Identifying the group that is responsible for this and hunting the members down one by one is the solution.



Hunting to me implies a clean and quick death. How about long painful and horrible life?!? Much better IMHO..

 
John Bateman
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Originally posted by Greg Harris:
i also think we know who did it... (bin laden). if he was not directly responsible, he certainly had a hand in the action. who else has the power, money and infrastructure to carry out such an organized mission?


Hussein?!?
 
Greg Harris
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Originally posted by John Bateman:
Hussein?!?


yea, i thought that as well. i hope not, but if he has something to do with this, then i guess we are going back to the Gulf. at least we will finish the job this time.
actually, if it is him, he just signed his death warrent. the current administration is "chomping at the bit" for a reason (read: excuse) to take him (hussein & bin laden) out. i think this qualifies. if (read: when) we take these guys out, i do not think anyone in the world will be able to blame us or call us heartless killers.
 
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Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
We have neutron bombs (very efficient killing) and the motivation to use them now. Before, we only had the bombs.
Like Truman said, the life of one American is worth more that the lives of ALL of our enemies combined.


Originally posted by Greg Harris:
well said, tony! you know as well as i do (maybe better) that something like this will not just go away like the USS Cole did last year.


I can only hope Americans will not dance and celebrate during ALL THIS.
 
Greg Harris
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you need to read my next post, Map... i am not for needless killing... i am for justice. this act of war will not go unpunished.
why do i call it an act of war? not to mention the 25,000 +/- people in and around the WTC, the terrorists attacked the Pentagon (our command and control center), they attacked the Capital/State Department and they tried to attack Camp David. that is what we call "going for the jugular..." in other words, cutting-off the main artery of the military.
this is a very big step for an individual terrorism group to take on, so i am hesitant to think that a country is not involved.
 
John Bateman
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Originally posted by Greg Harris:
that is what we call "going for the jugular..." in other words, cutting-off the main artery of the military.
this is a very big step for an individual terrorism group to take on, so i am hesitant to think that a country is not involved.


Exactly what I've been thinking. This is a big act, not just a terrorist act but it's the tactical aspectof these acts that are incredible.
 
Greg Harris
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you should read Tom Clancy's "Debt of Honor"... almost the exact same thing happens near the end of the book. the only differences are that the plane hits the White House and the pilot flies it there intentionally... it was an international flight.
as for the tactical aspect; all the planes were cross-country flights... heading for los angeles or san fransico. that means that all the planes were fully loaded with jet fuel so they would make the biggest explosion and cause the most damage.
 
John Bateman
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I think it's a given that someone was in the cockpits.
Any pilot knows he's going to die no matter what if he's told to "crash the plane into that building". Personally I would take my chances that the people taking over the plane can't fly and I'd force them to kill me.
The terrorists must have been aviators of some regard to pull this off.
Amazing the the US financial system wasn't touched at all.
 
Greg Harris
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well, there is some speculation about the plane that went down in pennsilvania... either the pilot ditched the plane, or our F-16's shot it down.
i am certain that the pilots of the planes that hit the WTC and the Pentagon were killed or incapacitated shortly after take-off. if i were the pilot, i would have ditched my plane... if i knew what the destination was. if i had no idea, i guess i would have tried to fight the terrroists.
 
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This is an act of war and crime against humanity and MUST be punished according to martial law. I am almost sure that operation against Osama Bin Laden has already been deployed. This monsters instead of fear brought ANGER not only in the US but, in all civilized people.
 
Michal Harezlak
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.. one more thing. Do not forget to give blood.
 
Greg Harris
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Originally posted by Michal Harezlak:
.. one more thing. Do not forget to give blood.


i posted this in another thread a few minutes ago... here in Atlanta, Georgia the lines at the Red Cross offices to give blood are 7 to 8 hours long! they are asking people to come back tomorrow or the next day.
 
John Bateman
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Hi
They are doing blood drives in Montreal now too.
Give Blood!!
 
Greg Harris
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Originally posted by John Bateman:
Hi
They are doing blood drives in Montreal now too.
Give Blood!!


thanks to all of you in the Great White North!
 
Greg Harris
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they just reported that a flight attendant on American Airlines flight 11 called in and said 2 flight attendants were stabbed and the terrorists broke-in to the cockpit... no big surprise, but now we know how they took control. they must have stabbed the pilots as well, and then flown the plane.
obviously this means that the effort was highly coordinated and carried out by highly trained individuals.
 
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Originally posted by John Bateman:
The terrorists must have been aviators of some regard to pull this off.


Actually, I am given to understand that it is quite easy to fly a plane once it is in the air. (I hear this from the news reports; I'm not a pilot myself.) All one would have to do is wait until the plane is in the air, enter the cabin, kill/otherwise incapicate the pilot, and then steer the plane whereever you want it to go. All they would need to be then is excellent planners and have only minimal experiance flying.
 
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here in the UK they had a guy on saying that if initially the hijacking seemed to be a "usual hijacking"(i.e. the guy(s) take over the plane, and threaten everyone on-board and tell the pilot to take the plane to a certain destination) then the pilot is trained to do as he is told ... so the pilots probably got the plane as far as NYC. However, if he was then told to fly into a building he would probably try to ditch the plane in the river instead .. he would never fly into a building ... so the pilots were probably incapacitated over NYC ... the guy also said if this was the case, the person who took over the controls wouldn't find it very difficult to stear the plane into the building.
Also I work for an airline and as the news appeared today a lot of people I know who know pilots were saying exactly the same thing, there is no way a trained commercial pilot would fly the plane into a building even if his life was threatened since he'd know he was going to die anyway and would take the chance that the hijackers would either not carry out their threat or were unable to control the plane!
 
Greg Harris
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well, the reason i think they (the terrorists) could have been pilots is because they could have been former military pilots... that is very possible and also very likely.
 
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Neutron bombs are NOT what you think, Angela. That's why they'd be a good idea to show who can do more damage.
Precisely, they are perfect for "the planet".
They are small-radius, high intensity radiation but not blast non-traditional nuclear weapons that kill everything in sight of a SMALL area (compared to traditional nuclear weapons), with almost no radiation left a few weeks after, so that troops can safely move it and occupy territory (like oil fields in the middle east or terrorist camps). Also, they don't destroy buildings as badly as traditional nuclear weapons. More buildings are left in place for occupation later.
Actually, they are modern day Earth friendly nuclear weapons
Finally, like Reagan proved in 1986 bombing Kadaffy in the tent where he slept with his concubines in Lybia, terrorizing a terrorist really stops him.
Half hearted measures just show our weakness.
We have the capability for overwhelming military response. Let's use it (again). It works.
I understand that Putin (Russia) is not going to interfere and of course we have the other nuclear power GB right behind us.
It's time to show some good old-fashioned (a la Reagan) American overwhelming military power.
Surely Kadaffy is praying that no one from Lybia was involved.
 
Tony Alicea
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"Do you nuke everyone associated with the culprits and everything within a 10 mile radius as Tony says? What is the appropriate punishment?"
When the attacking entity understands that the very existence of his people is at risk if they attack, then they won't attack.
Example: In the 1970s when terrorist kidnappings and assassinations against Americans, British and other western personnel was common in Lebanon (and never met with any real force), one "smart" terrorist group had the great idea a also kidnapping a Soviet attache in the area.
Well, when they made the ransom demand (I don't remember what it was), what they got in response was the finger of the brother of the head of the terrorist group with an identifying ring still attached to it. The soviet attache was immediately let go without further ado and unharmed.
If we Americans do that, we are "just like them".
And I agree, we should not be like them. We should be WORSE. If they hurt one of ours, we send two of them to the hospital. If they send one of us to the hospital, we send two of them to the morgue. If they send one of ours to the morgue, we destroy a city of theirs with a neutron bomb.
Eventually there will be none of them left (and plenty of us left) and World Peace will reign
They have already told us that they don't want to live in the same planet with us. So, what gives?
This is the perfect opportunity also to take over oil fields since the money from them was used for this attack.
Don't forget that this was not a terrorist attack BUT A DECLARATION OF WAR (actually a confirmation of Bin Laden's previous verbal declaration of war which we ignored).
And innocent people always die in war (like the Americans that died today, e.g.).
 
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Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Neutron bombs are NOT what you think, Angela. That's why they'd be a good idea to show who can do more damage.
Precisely, they are perfect for "the planet".
They are [b]small-radius, high intensity radiation but not blast
non-traditional nuclear weapons that kill everything in sight of a SMALL area (compared to traditional nuclear weapons), with almost no radiation left a few weeks after, so that troops can safely move it and occupy territory (like oil fields in the middle east or terrorist camps). Also, they don't destroy buildings as badly as traditional nuclear weapons. More buildings are left in place for occupation later.
Actually, they are modern day Earth friendly nuclear weapons
Finally, like Reagan proved in 1986 bombing Kadaffy in the tent where he slept with his concubines in Lybia, terrorizing a terrorist really stops him.
Half hearted measures just show our weakness.
We have the capability for overwhelming military response. Let's use it (again). It works.
I understand that Putin (Russia) is not going to interfere and of course we have the other nuclear power GB right behind us.
It's time to show some good old-fashioned (a la Reagan) American overwhelming military power.
Surely Kadaffy is praying that no one from Lybia was involved.[/B]


Is terrible that this kind fo things happened around the world
My condolences to all US' citizens.
Tony:
How can a bomb be perfect for the planet ???
Whats that "Earth freandly" nuclear weapons ???
I don't think that ANY kind of weapon is "perfect"
or "freandly" for anything.
Who do you think these weapons should be used against??
Terrorizing a terrorist in the past, did really stopped this ?
I think America should search and capture every US's enemy outside and inside america and execute him
but never react against inocent people around the world looking for revenge because that would only generete more anger.
Justice must be done, but in a civilized manner. NOT BOMBARDING TO A COUNTRY, but finding the leaders of the terrorist movement!!!
 
Michal Harezlak
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Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Don't forget that this was not a terrorist attack BUT A DECLARATION OF WAR (actually a confirmation of Bin Laden's previous verbal declaration of war which we ignored).
And innocent people always die in war (like the Americans that died today, e.g.).
[/B]


Exactly! It is a war. Many people, still mistakes it with "regular" terrorism.

[This message has been edited by Michal Harezlak (edited September 11, 2001).]
 
Tony Alicea
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Mapraputa:
"I can only hope Americans will not dance and celebrate during ALL THIS."
Please explain your comment. I don't understand.
Perhaps your comments were directed to the ragheads palestinians who are actually celebrating (CNN) this as I saw on the TV screen?
Right? Or why would Americans celebrate a worse attack than Pearl Harbor?
 
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Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I can only hope Americans will not dance and celebrate during ALL THIS.


I will dance my ass off and get drunker than i ever have before in celebration of those worthless forms of life being extreminated.
And i saw on tv that palestinians were celebrating in the streets chanting and handing out candy. We should bomb them as well and then see how well they dance when they are in 1000 pieces. F***ING worthless F**KS.
 
Mapraputa Is
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Palestinian people full of joy because thousands Americans were killed - that was one of the abominable scene I've ever seen. Whatever strong their hateness toward the USA is, to be so happy about killing innoncent people - that's something beyond my understanding.
But to respond to a horrible crime with even worse crime means to increase hateness. I guess some kind of forceful response from the USA is unevitable, but if other innoncent people will be killed - it will be a tragedy. Nothing to be proud of. When I said that I hope American people will not celebrate, I meant they will not celebrate their revenge.
 
Tony Alicea
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Andy:
Correct.
Partly it is our fault (that there are still palestinians) in Israel:
During the Gulf War, Syria and Libya (anti-American states) were saying publicly to Saddam Hussein, to give it up; to not fight the UN coalition and get out of Kuwait.
Saddam didn't budge and the "palestinians" were the only ones in favor of Hussein and against the rest of the world.
I repeat, Kadaffy (of Libya) and Assad (of Syria), both anti-Israeli and anti-American knew the stakes well and as such advised their more idiotic friend Hussein to give up.
But Hussein didn't care about sending hundreds of thousands of his "soldiers" to their certain death.
So the way many of us in the civilized world saw it was that not only Iraq lost, but the palestinians did too. Therefore they should be treated as losers in a war. No "palestinians" rights. Maybe they had some rights before but when they took sides with the LOSING side of the war, they lost them. As in any other war.
Maybe then Israel should have expelled these "people" out.
There's already a "palestinian" state in the middle east, BTW.
It's called JORDAN.
The truth is that no arab country wants them. The only reason arab countries PRETEND to vouch for the palestinians is twofold:
1) They don't want them in their country.
2) The fake "struggle" keeps their citizen masses concentrated on the (non) problem of palestinian "homeland" INSTEAD of concentrating on why these citizens have such a a shitty government.
This declaration of War on the USA will serve more than one purpose for Universal Peace on Earth.
The wheat WILL be separated from the World chaff. It's called NATURAL SELECTION. (Thinning of the terrestrial herd.)

 
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As I saw the huge towers implode live on television this morning, I felt involuntary shivers - it was like a slick Hollywood production, it seemed too easy, too perfectly executed to be real - I gaped looking at those images - the ash, smoke and debris seemed to flow through that whole Manhattan region - almost like a volcanic eruption.
I cannot start to imagine the state of mind of folks whose relatives and friends failed to return home this evening I pray to God to give them all the strength to cope with this disaster; and I also hope survivors who are still trapped in the debris, and nearby buildings can be rescued soon.
It's strange, that just last week, Les Robertson, the Trade Center's structural engineer, in a conference on tall buildings in Germany, was quoted saying "I designed it for a 707 to smash into it." He could not be reached for comment today.
Did anyone notice today's date is 9-11
Tony, your reaction is similar to mine, when I learnt that McD was adding beef to their fries. However right it seems, senseless violence should never be returned in kind. The real war we need to wage is not against a country, but against terrorism. Identify the bad guys, isolate them, kill them, and destroy all their ammo, supplies, even training centers. But killing some innocent goat-herder in the serene Afghani mountain ranges is not a nice thing to do.
I think the celebration in Palestine was not exactly because people got killed - but because America was hurt. For them the destruction was merely a symbolic event - they feel good that their enemy was taken by surprise, and was proved incapable of defending herself.
Does this indicate a total failure of the US intelligence system?
Is there a possibility this was carried out by a disgruntled American, like what happened in the Oklahama bombing?
 
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Are there really innocents when you harbor terrorists capable of doing this?
And equating a reaction to this to beef in fries are you on crack?
 
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Slow down people pse.
The guilty must be punished we all agree. But then to go and kill other innocent bystanders to revenge the killing of the original innocent victims only dishonors their death.
Stop this talking about nuking whole nations. Not every Palestinian, Arabian, and Muslim is bad.
Every apple orchard has a few rotten apples. Throwing away the whole orchard is not the answer.
 
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Naturally, I'm quite appalled by today's events. At the moment bin Laden seems by far the most likely suspect, so for the remainder of this post I'll assume that he's the guilty party. Feel free to mentally adjust my responses if further information develops.
> Are there really innocents when you harbor terrorists capable
> of doing this?
At the government level - probably not. But Afghanistan is not exactly a democracy. And half their people are women, who as we've discussed recently, don't have a lot of power under the Taliban government. Or even adequate medical care. I'm all for the idea of punishing those responsible (directly and indirectly) for today's atrocity, and I support the idea of military action against bin Ladan and his supporters. But I recognize that some innocents will be harmed by such actions - and while I may be able to rationalize this as a necessary evil by balancing it against the dangers of leaving bin Ladan with the ability to strike again, I certainly wouldn't celebrate the idea of reducing all of Afghanistan to a parking lot. And frankly I'm appalled at the number of Americans who seem to think this way. The fact that we've suffered a horrible tragedy is not a license to do whatever we damn well please. Our response to todays events will define who we are for decades to come, and it's important that we not lose sight of that in our thirst for justice.
 
Johannes de Jong
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Well said Jim.
 
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More than one person has raised the possibility that this could be the beginning of WWIII.
 
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It could start a war but not a world war. Actually for our military against any middle east nation(or group) it would be more of a skirmish. The fact that they commit suicide to kill innocent civilians show the insanity of their mental state. The outcome of the gulf war would have infuenced the actions of a sane person. I would not be surprised if my government jumps right on this opportunity to take out a known bad guy. They say war is good for the economy too.
 
Angela Poynton
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Originally posted by Randall Twede:
It could start a war but not a world war.


i think that very much depends on how the USA retailiates. If they go in too quick (without proper evidence of who is responsible) and do something too extreme (neutron bombs ... sorry Tony but i am aware of what they are and I still don't think they should EVER be used) then there will be countries who will dissapprove and this may lead to tensions and the potential for WWIII. I suspect the UK will stand with the US, although Tony Blair relationship with President Bush is not nearly as friendly as it was with Clinton since Bush seems determined to isolate the USA from world affairs.
I'm not saying the USA would start WWIII, ultimatly this terrible act would be to blame, but I do hope when you guys retailiate (which I do believe you should), you do it with proper evidence, and do everything you can to ensure it is those responsible who are punished and not innocents.
I woke up this morning thinking everything yesterday had been a dream until I heard the news on the radio. I am accross a BIG ocean and I am in complete shock. I am thankful that I don't know anyone who would have been there, many of my friends and collegues do. These people must be found and punished, they are a threat to the free and democratic world.
 
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Whatever has happened is JUST HORRIBLE.The guilty should be identified and brought to task.If there is any nation supporting these terrorists, US should declare a war against them.After all, these people are continuing to cause havoc world over!Their entity and associates should be removed from the world map.
My heart goes out to all the victims of this tradegy
-- Sandeep
 
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>The guilty should be identified and brought to task.If there is >any nation supporting these terrorists, US should declare a war >against them.
Easier said than done. I am scared. I think there is a danger for this to get out of hand. The american public wants revenge. Scary. I hope they won't decide to bomb one of those nations that they wanted for ages and kill more innocent people. And most of all. Will they tell the public who is really responsible for this?
Did you know the guys who kidnapped the planes only had knifes.
 
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I didn't get into this at all yesterday - too busy listening to the news and trying to get info on what was going on.
I am so pissed I cant even begin to explain it or come to terms with it. Yesterday I was just mad that some coward would do this to innocent people in MY country. Then I started to think about some other stuff: what am I going to tell my daughter (thankfully she is only 8 and I dont think she fully understands what has happened), and also I wonder how many people in the country realize they have seen the world change before their eyes. For those people that have never been to war or seen combat, for those that dont know anyone in a terrorist infested area this type of action is completely incomprehensible. Most people that I've seen are numb, they have no idea how to react. Their next reaction will most likely be fear, that won't last long (probably not even a day), after that it'll be anger - that's when the cowards that did this will need to be afraid, very, very afraid.
I am pretty sure that the government will not act until they are sure that they know who did this, but when they do the reaction needs to be swift, violent, and deadly. The ugly, little cowards that did this will know that they made a huge mistake and that when we are done ther will be no safe place in the entire world for these people.
I think it was Tony or Greg that said these people don't want to share to world with us... well, I hope that we are about to arrange that for them!!
If these people have a problem with this country maybe they should try to pick a fight with people that represent it. The men, women and children and those airplanes and the vast majority of the other victims (except those at the pentagon) had no connection to the government.
You want a fight, you little coward, you scared, small-minded, son-of-a-bitch? Do you? You're more than welcome to come try to pick a fight with me and the rest of the United States Marine Corps. Oh, what's that you say... You didn't want a fair fight becasue you know you'd lose? Well guess what... you just lost!!!

Dave

[This message has been edited by Dave Vick (edited September 12, 2001).]
 
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