Really? The only way, I or you could KNOW is if we believe everything our leaders and CNN are spoon feeding us. (cross reference this with your comments in the other thread and sprinkle a little bit of Map's intentional misinformation on top for good measure.) Further, let's pretend like we really believe that it was %100 Bin Laden and his minions. How many of the accused terrorists were Afgan? Let's do the math, 19 hijackers, 0 Afgans, 0 divided by 19 equals 0. We are unequivocally lashing out in the 'general' direction.
Is that what your leaders told you? It's not that I don't partly agree, but I'm starting feel like I'm listening to some analyst from CNN. Niccolo Machiavelli set it straight 500+ years ago, at least if your only concern is maintaining dominion over your principality. People should be embraced or destroyed, because they will always seek to avenge minor grievances. All we have done so far is punish a war torn people who had little personal involvment in 9/11, strengthening their distrust and steeling their resolve.
Did you learn this from CNN? Did you know Mohammad said that Jesus was going to come back? Did you know that Abraham is considered the founder of Islam? There may be a small group of 'fundamentalists' that would echo these sentiments, but their views of Islam as are distorted as yours. Do you believe that is the view of the 'Afgan on the street'?
Ever heard of Vietnam? Americans are as capable of commiting atrocity as any other group. War is bad, ok, it twists people up mentally and emotionally. I've seen photos of US infantry from the invasion of Iraq. They were taking snap shots of Iraqi corpses that had been flash fried by fuel air explosives. Not just taking pictures, but actually picking up the dead and posing with big American smiles on their faces.
Originally posted by Andrew Shafer:
He's just not like us Map, he's different.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
No, I'm nothing like you Andrew.
I don't understand how anyone can seriously believe that statement you made. If a bankrobber commits murder while robbing a bank, the getaway driver is also guilty of murder, even though he didn't pull the trigger.
As I have pointed out ad nauseum. . .
Vietnam? You mean Mi Lai?
As for American taking snapshots with corpses in the Gulf, I haven't seen those pictures, but I guess it is in the realm of possibility.
As for your statement about war screwing people up etc.. I can tell from your comments that any views of war you have are all theory.
I am not an appologist for those who would kill us.
what was that about all your American friends being ignorant?
I do not have a knee-jerk suspicion for everything our government does on our behalf (neither do I have blind faith). I do not feel the need to criticize my country at every turn.
I do not make my livelihood by leeching off of a system that I hold in low esteem.
I realize and honor the sacrifices of those who came before me that allow me to live with more freedoms than anywhere else on the planet, that allow me to prosper, and that allow me to do all this in relative safety and security. I realize that there are times when actions must be taken to maintain this freedom and way of life.
I do not hold the belief that war under any circumstance should never be waged. I do not believe that we should kiss the ass of those who would do us harm, simply in the name of temporary safety.
So you are right, I am different.
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I was waiting for Andrew's post to check my hypothesis...
if they come back to this country, they shouldn't imagine that they can then just enjoy the democratic freedoms and rights of a free society, when they have fought against it.
cluster bombs come into the equation
. I think the basic contention arises from the fast and loose way people and their philosophy get labeled 'Islamic'.
may have seen a little bit of the Gulf? Do you really think this compares to what the infantry saw in Vietnam?
You are acting as an appologist for those currently killing.
An observation? Americans are generally clueless unless you ask them about the new music video on MTV or who won the ball game last night. In general, Americans live unaware of the world politics and they quite like it that way. It's not bad mouthing Americans, you have to call a spade a spade.
With that being said, I do my work, I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, I'm not rich, but I don't do too bad.
Those who would trade liberty for security, do not deserve either. Some Famous Person
When you consider freedom and your way of life, what do you think of the new anti-terrorism legislation?
I make no appologies for our military actions now as none are warranted. Are you saying theirs were?
I guess all I can suggest is to try to diversify your acquaintences. I do not have similar problems.
And sometimes responsibility comes along with being a citizen. Are the words you spoke when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance that you most likely had to recite daily as a child just empty and meaninlgess?
Another thing, and I'm sure people will take offense at this question, how can you consider suicide bombing an act of cowardice, but droping bombs from 10000 ft is not?
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
Here is how, 1 is an act targeted against civilians the other is targeted at military. In this case the dropping is very safe for the pilots. But take Iraq, the AA and SAM threat was very real and the pilot doesn't just drop and leave. So in that case yes it was very brave. But an act targeted solely against innocent civilians is never brave.
You are so brave why don't you go over and capture Osama? Do you even understand why the bombing takes place?
And as far as your repeated cluster bomb references. They are being dropped on the front lines alond fortified trenches. If civilians are being killed by cluster bombs, why are they at the front lines?
Originally posted by G Vanin:
But I have a hard feeling because some fsoviets change his name just to express his sympathy to communism.
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
This symbolic use of "civilised" was reinforced in a lost post of a prominent leader of MD's anti-American movement Omar Khan.