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Matrix -- eh

 
author and jackaroo
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PW: So what's the deal with the architect? Is he suggesting that the matrix is in a matrix?

Warning: possible spoilers in here.

I think the second movie is trying to fill in some of the unanswered issues of the first movie (to its detriment in my opinion).
One of the issues I had was how could the current matrix (Agent Smith says that the "first matrix" failed, implying that this must be at least the second matrix) have been around for 100+ years, but it still be only the year 1999 (roughly - I forget the exact year quoted by Morpheus). OK - so they could have "started" the matrix to be 1900 and just let it run, but then they have the potential problem that sooner or later the people in the matrix get to the level where they invent true AI again which leads to a war which leads to a matrix ..... (a world within a world within a world).
The architecht suggests a brute force way of handling this: restart the matrix every 'x' years, allowing for the creation of the anomoly (Neo) who forces the "reboot".
Regards, Andrew
 
tumbleweed
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Hmm Matrix within a Matrix I missed that one, must discuss that with my son tonight.
 
Rancher
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I'm going to resist making a reference to to the movie The 13th Floor
 
David O'Meara
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Oops
 
Wanderer
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I'm going to resist making a reference to to the movie The 13th Floor
No need. I already mentioned it.
As for the architect - well, I still haven't seen M2, so I can't offer an informed opinion. But since I rarely let that stop me - it seems that once you have the concept that "reality" is actually a sort of simulation created by some "real" reality, it's logical to question whether the "real" reality is, well, real or not. Leading to the idea of matrices within matrices, elephants standing on the back of other elephants (or turtles as the case may be)... Once they got funding for not one but two Matrix sequels, it was probably fated they'd go in this direction.
 
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I thought Matrix Reloaded was a kick ass movie. I loved the fight scenes. I can't decide if I like the highway scene or the zillion Agent Smith's. The story line was interesting, too. My favorite line from the movie: "You told me to never go on the freeway. It's suicide." Is this a commentary on the modern transporation system?
I've also seen X2, but I don't think I can say which I like better.
[ May 22, 2003: Message edited by: Layne Lund ]
 
Layne Lund
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Originally posted by David O'Meara:
I'm going to resist making a reference to to the movie The 13th Floor


I didn't see this before my first post. The 13th Floor completely...floored me when I saw it. The way they presented a world within a world within a world was very interesting.
 
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Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
...(Agent Smith says that the "first matrix" failed, implying that this must be at least the second matrix)...
In the first film it tells us the first matrix failed because they made the illusory world too perfect, a utopian world. Apparently the human brain couldn't handle this - it needs conflict and strife to survive. I say they because I could probably live without it.
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
The architecht suggests a brute force way of handling this: restart the matrix every 'x' years, allowing for the creation of the anomoly (Neo) who forces the "reboot".
Imagine being able to reboot your day if it starts going pair-shaped. You could have your very own "Groundhog Day".
 
Richard Hawkes
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Matrix quiz:
http://film.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/0,5952,957691,00.html
 
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Matrix quiz:
http://film.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/0,5952,957691,00.html


The only question I got wrong:
Who or what is the Littlest Hobo?
 
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Who or what is the Littlest Hobo?


A TV show (most probably american) that used to be on UK tv about 25 years ago. Was all about a kid and a dog (yea like a low budget lassie).
 
Jim Yingst
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A TV show (most probably american)
3 links for you: 1 2 3
 
Nilesh Pereira
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Okay, well in that case, I'm glad I got it wrong
These brits are crazy...
 
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:

Agent Smith is my favourite. (btw, did anyone else LOL when he appeared in Lord of the Rings?!)


I actually laughed when I saw him in the first Matrix, considering the first film I saw him in he was climbing a rock in drag
And don't even get me started on General Zod...
[ May 23, 2003: Message edited by: jason adam ]
 
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Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
PW: So what's the deal with the architect? Is he suggesting that the matrix is in a matrix?

Warning: possible spoilers in here.

I think the second movie is trying to fill in some of the unanswered issues of the first movie (to its detriment in my opinion).
One of the issues I had was how could the current matrix (Agent Smith says that the "first matrix" failed, implying that this must be at least the second matrix) have been around for 100+ years, but it still be only the year 1999 (roughly - I forget the exact year quoted by Morpheus). OK - so they could have "started" the matrix to be 1900 and just let it run, but then they have the potential problem that sooner or later the people in the matrix get to the level where they invent true AI again which leads to a war which leads to a matrix ..... (a world within a world within a world).
The architecht suggests a brute force way of handling this: restart the matrix every 'x' years, allowing for the creation of the anomoly (Neo) who forces the "reboot".
Regards, Andrew



To be accurate, the Matrix in the movie we are familiar with is actually the 6th matrix. Each one elegidly improving upon the previous.
Each "The One" was given the same choice NEO was given...
1. Walk through Door 1 - The matrix is rebuilt, again, ZION is destroyed although 13 people are left to rebuild ZION, again. Trinity Dies. NEO would be re-assimalated back into the new matrix.
2. Walk through Door 2 - The current matrix stays, ZION is destroyed, Trinity Dies (although she doesn't) but NEO stays who he is.
NEO was the first of 6 to choose Door 2. Everyone else chose door 1 because none of them were IN LOVE.
The whole idea of a Matrix within a Matrix is neat, however, I hope they don't do that for 2 reasons.
1. It's too obvious and too much of an easy cop out to say that. It will be more interesting if there is a bit more "supernatural" abilities to NEO than what we think. Hence, stopping the Sentinals in the "Real World".
2. Too complicated for the general viewer. Granted most of the fan base understands what is going on, but imagine how many more they would lose adding that complexity.
I also think that it is possible that Morpheus has knowledge of an incomplete prophecy. I mean, how vague is it to say that "The One" walks through the door and the war is over. They never get into what happens when NEO walks through that door.
Maybe the prophecy is incomplete and NEO chose the correct door to truly fulfill the Prophecy.
Who knows, I guess we will find out in November.
 
Trailboss
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Why did they make a big deal about the necklace?
 
Gregg Bolinger
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Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:
Why did they make a big deal about the necklace?


The necklace that Link got from his wife? Who knows. Maybe it will come into play in the next movie.
Keep in mind that this is not a trilogy. Reloaded is Part 1 of a 2 Part movie which will be considered the 2nd part to The Matrix in it's entirety.
With that in mind, any questions that seemed unanswered probably still are just that; unanswered.
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by jason adam:
And don't even get me started on General Zod...
General Zod?!?
 
jason adam
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It's in reference to the same movie that Agent Smith plays a drag queen
 
Richard Hawkes
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Well I finally saw it. The story telling sucked in my NSHO. The characters were trying to act too cool and there was very little humanity in it. And what was all that dancing about? I was actually embarassed.
When I think of the all money and talent that went into creating this movie, I feel cheated. I don't see how anyone can take anything from this film beyond the action; its about as deep as my belly-button, which is a real shame. I wanted them to do a good job of exploring the nature of choice, reality, fate etc, instead of leaving it to a few superficial conversations.
However, I was pretty entertained. I liked the kung fu fights, the shooting and the motorway chase. Agent Smith - again - was the bollocks! He rules, lets have a film about him. Of course I'll be going to see the next one on account of me being a sucker for sci-fi and chop-socky.
 
Jim Yingst
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I saw it too. Not that great, but pretty good. Pretty sophisticated for summer movie fare, but still summer movie fare. Personally I enjoyed X2 more, as well as the original Matrix. But hey, it was fun.
The characters were trying to act too cool
Well, yes. But those "cool" sunglasses and black clothes served a useful storytelling function - the told us whether a given scene was in the matrix, or in Zion. If the characters looked like humans, but with funny sockets, they were in Zion. If they were "too cool for words", they were in the Matrix. Otherwise we'd have no clue, since the script has them randomly jumping from one to the other and back without any explanation.
its about as deep as my belly-button
Innie or outie?
Why did they make a big deal about the necklace?
Did they? Didn't seem like a big deal to me. Though in a movie with this budget, any screen time is valuable - what function does it serve? Not a lot in this case, IMO. I thought they put it in just to give Link a link to his family, so when he got in trouble later he could hold the necklace to show he was thinking of them, and make us care about him more. Other movies would have the character look at a picture of his family - but that sort of technology would look out of place in Zion.
The necklace was said to be something from her religion (but not his). Could anyone tell what it was? Something Catholic maybe? Something else? Who knows, it could fit into the plot later, as Gregg says.
Re: matrix-in-a-matrix (-in-another-matrix): This is a possibility, but wasn't as strongly suggested as I expected after the comments here. Though I can't yet think of a better explanation for Neo's ability to neutralize Sentinels in Zion-space.
I remember "General Zod" being in Priscilla; I hadn't realized "Agent Smith" was too. And - hey - "Ed Exley" as well. Hunh - guess that means I need to rewatch it now that I know who they are. Plus it's a hoot in its own right. "I've said it before, and I'll say it again: 'No more f---ing ABBA!!!'"
In other strange crossover news - Terence Stamp just showed up on Smallville as... Jor-El, father of Kal-El (Clark) (!). Well, his recorded voice anyway, since Jor-El presumeably died some time ago. But we'll probably get a visual at some point. What makes this particularly fun is that at this point in Clark's life, he barely knows what Krypton is, and knows virtually nothing about what his parents were like. But there have been several hints that they were not necessarily nice people, contrary to most other versions of the story. So you know the producers are really trying to f--- with our heads by putting "General Zod" in the role of Jor-El. What next, a Batman series with Jack Nicholson in a flashback cameo as Thomas Wayne?
Oh, and back to M2 - was I the only one who saw Link and said, hey, it's Augustus Hill - what's he doing walking around?
--------------------
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
[ May 26, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Well, yes. But those "cool" sunglasses and black clothes served a useful storytelling function
Yes, good point. It just looked odd. I had similar feelings while watching Attack of the Clones. We've only ever been exposed to one or two Jedis at a time, then suddenly we get hundreds of them all running around like Power Rangers - just looked daft to me! Don't know how you could get around it though...
I think maybe M1 was more engaging because it was based mainly inside the matrix and therefore had a valuable point of reference to the lives of us, the audience. In M2 we're only in the matrix to fight and the matrix scenes seemed less real. There was less interaction with the matrix world, no one seemed to be concerned with the lives of the innocents or with trying to be discrete. In fact the matrix of M2 wasn't a believable environment whereas in M1 it was, albiet a sinister looking one.
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Re: matrix-in-a-matrix ... Though I can't yet think of a better explanation for Neo's ability to neutralize Sentinels in Zion-space.
Also how do we explain the mind of Agent Smith being in the *real* world inside that bearded chap...?
 
Richard Hawkes
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Ah Priscilla, I remember now! I've seen it a couple of time however I missed the references. Too busy singing along to Dancing Queen and hitching up my tights (don't ask).
 
jason adam
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Ah Priscilla, I remember now! I've seen it a couple of time however I missed the references. Too busy singing along to Dancing Queen and hitching up my tights (don't ask).


Reminds me of my Memorial Day weekend
<hijack> Ok, I'm not a big fan of WB teeny-bopper shows, but I've been sucked into Smallville for sometime now, though I liked them better when different towns folk came down with all sorts of freaky powers. Definitely a nice twist on Superman, making them seem a bit too high and mighty. Will be interesting to see where they go with it </hijack>
Based on these postings I've lost my enthusiasm for seeing the movie, and my desire to see X2 has greatly increased... need to quit being a slacker and get out and see them.
 
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