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Why the americans...

 
mister krabs
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As to the original question, Syria is a supporter of terrorism and that is why Syria is on the short list of evil countries.
 
Trailboss
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One need only look at the list of weapons in the Iraq army to see that. everything they use is either Russian or French made.


Oh. I thought that During the Iran Iraq war, we definitely hated Iran and we were supplying Iraq with weopons. Plus, I thought that one of the ways that we kicked butt in 91 was that so much of their stuff was old stuff made by us that we knew exactly how to short circuit it.
Joe,
I wonder if a guy being asked to do a suicide bomb thing might think:

    a) If this is suicide bombing thing is so important, why don't you do it?
    b) I can't do it tonight, Matlock is on.
    c) The next month is out because I gotta know how (dumbass reality show) turns out.
    d) Ask me again after the superbowl/world cup/whatever.

    Or, yeah, what if they had more internet.
 
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I can just imagine entire intricately timed terrorist plots going awry because of double overtime ("I could not assemble the detonators, I was just sick at the Laker's performance"). Or perhaps the suicide bomber simply blows himself up in protest of the latest winner of Middle Eastern Idol.
Yes, there are possibilities here.
Joe
 
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Or perhaps the suicide bomber simply blows himself up in protest of the latest winner of Middle Eastern Idol.
Yes, there are possibilities here.
Joe


Chant in Beirut :
"Blood,souls and sacrifice"."For you, Melhem". Thankfully Melhem isn't a mullah or militant leader. He's a crooner and the Lebanese candidate on Superstar, the Arab version of Britain's Pop Idol.
When Melhem Zein long considered the favourite was eliminated , pandemonium broke out, fans threw chairs, the two remaining finalists fainted. Lebanese viewers claimed that Syria had bribed the pgmme makers to get rid of Zein. Others claimed that the voting system had been rigged.
Finally the show was won by 19 yr old Jordanian Diana Karzon, her victory set off a frenzy in Jordan's Amman with thousands pouring on to the streets to cheer honk car horns ,fire guns. The little Bedouin state was finally making it's mark.
The Islamic Action Front called for an end to this sad comedy condemning it as yet "another example of American culture infecting the Arab world".
On the contrary says Rami G. Khouri in the Daily Star (Lebanon). "It's a refreshing change to see Arabs having fun and getting excited over non-political issues. The pop contest has prompted the largest collective outpouring of emotion.It's given us a lesson in democracy.Karzon won with 50% of the vote,just ahead of the Syrian Ruweida Atieh with 48%. Such a slim margin of victory is totally unfamiliar in Arab countries, where presedential elections are fixed to ensure the encumbent gets more than 90% of the votes. We owe the producers of this programme a debt of gratitude for showing Arabs that polls aren't always political freak shows and that votes can really count".

As you may all be aware ,AN AWFUL EARTHQUAKE has struck Bam, an historic town in southeastern Iran. Preliminary estimates suggest the death toll could reach 10,000 (though I heard 2000 this afternoon) and half of the city's houses appear to have been destroyed. Thoughts are with the people of Iran today.
 
Joe Pluta
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Thoughts are with the people of Iran today.
Prayer is always appropriate, to the deity of your choice. And those who do not pray can simply keep those people in your hearts.
Joe
 
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Oh. I thought that During the Iran Iraq war, we definitely hated Iran and we were supplying Iraq with weopons. Plus, I thought that one of the ways that we kicked butt in 91 was that so much of their stuff was old stuff made by us that we knew exactly how to short circuit it.


Thought wrong Paul. Their tanks were Russian surplus. They had a mix of Russian and French jets. Korean missiles as well as some French. All of the smaller arms are Chinese made.
 
author and iconoclast
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I wonder if we set it up so everybody could get five tv stations of sit coms, special interest shows, sports and general entertainment ... maybe folks would watch a little more tv rather than thinking about how to hurt somebody. The modern opiate of the masses.


"If you ain't got nothin, you got nothin' to lose" -- Bob Dylan
If you have a mortgage, a job, a TV, a swimming pool, and a Lincoln, are you gonna be in a hurry to start a war in your backyard? Nope. On the other hand, if you have none of the above, you might rather subscribe to
"If you're going to kick down Western Civilization, you might as well use both feet." -- John Lydon
Desperate situations require desparate measures. Comfortable people are happy to leave well enough alone.
 
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Their tanks were Russian surplus. They had a mix of Russian and French jets. Korean missiles as well as some French. All of the smaller arms are Chinese made.
Add to the mix US-made cluster bombs as well as biological and chemical materials (such as Bacillus Anthracis, Clostridium Botulinum, Histoplasma Capsulatam, Brucella Melitensis, Clostridium Perfringens, and Clostridium tetani) sold to Iraq by US companies, and you get the full picture.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:
Oh. I thought that During the Iran Iraq war, we definitely hated Iran and we were supplying Iraq with weopons. Plus, I thought that one of the ways that we kicked butt in 91 was that so much of their stuff was old stuff made by us that we knew exactly how to short circuit it.


We were selling stuff to IRAN during the Iran-Iraq War. Did you ever hear of Irangate? We did give Iraq some satellite photos but that was as much as we helped them with duing the war.
 
John Smith
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We were selling stuff to IRAN during the Iran-Iraq War. Did you ever hear of Irangate?
Oh yeah, was that when UN World Court found US guilty of state sponsored terrorism and ordered indemnity paid, but we never did? Well, that weapon dealing was for the hostages, and the dealing of weapons with Iraq was for profit and the result of ill-conceived policy. Rumsfield met Saddam on a a good-will visit terms and kept quiet along with the administration while Iraq was gassing the Iranians on a daily basis. It's fair to say that we were officially neutral, but played both sides, along with France, Germany, and Israel.
 
Joe Pluta
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UN World Court found US guilty of state sponsored terrorism
Hey, Eugene, how about some documentation of this? I know there was a lot of furor over arms to Iran, but I don't remember the US being found guilty of anything by anyone. Perhaps you can share some links.
Of course, I have little faith in the UN. They just performed an internal audit based on a whistle blower and even though they found evidence of the charges, they claim a clean bill of health and the whistle-blowers must go.
"With regard to specific allegations, the OIOS Report concludes that there was: no abuse of travel privileges by a UNODC staff member; no retaliation against complainants; no evidence of a conflict of interest in the award of a 2002 contract to a UNODC staff member�s next-of-kin. However, during the investigation, the OIOS uncovered evidence of contracts involving conflicts of interest between 1995 and 2001 on the part of the same staff member.
Having carefully examined the OIOS� findings, which clear the UNODC of corruption, the Executive Director has decided that the two employees who raised these unfounded allegations cannot have a future in the Organization."
Let's see here - the employee alleged conflict of interest in 2002. They found evidence of conflicts of interest from 1995 to 2001, but not specifically in 2002. This means the UNODC is cleared and the people bringing the charges must leave the UN.
This is your UN in action.
And in a further hilarious addendum to this particular bit of fun, I love this:
"As important step towards safeguarding the highest standards of transparency and integrity at UNODC, Mr. Costa will seek the views of Member States regarding the establishment of an Integrity Panel to advise him on matters pertaining to integrity and ethical behaviour in keeping with UNODC�s role as the custodian of the United Nations Convention against Corruption. The Ambassador of Colombia, General Rosso Jos� Serrano Cadena, has been invited to assist Mr. Costa in this endeavour."
In order to ensure the integrity of the drug oversight committee, we'll ask the Ambassador of Colombia to help us.
Joe
 
John Smith
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Joe: Hey, Eugene, how about some documentation of this? I know there was a lot of furor over arms to Iran, but I don't remember the US being found guilty of anything by anyone. Perhaps you can share some links.
Certainly: Nicaragua v. the United States of America (check the embedded links, too)
 
Joe Pluta
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Thanks, Eugene. This properly jogged my memory. This was a messy situation. Nicaragua was actively encouraging the overthrow of the El Salvadoran government. We were attempting to aid El Salvador by supporting Nicaraguan rebels (the contras). Unfortunately, Reagan had some REALLY bad advice and tried to do this covertly.
The ICJ was pretty divided about our support of El Salvador except in one specific case: the mining of Nicaraguan harbors. And from any reasonable point of view, mining harbors is a pretty bogus thing to do. So, yeah, that specific act was probably a violation of international law. But at the time Nicaragua wasn't particularly playing nice, either; I find it amusing that they were willing to even file this suit.
In any event, Nicaragua eventually dropped their suit in order to get funding from the US, so it's pretty much all a moot point now.
Joe
 
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Iraq was never an ally of the US.
Are you sure?

Vasu
 
Paul Stevens
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Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
Their tanks were Russian surplus. They had a mix of Russian and French jets. Korean missiles as well as some French. All of the smaller arms are Chinese made.
Add to the mix US-made cluster bombs as well as biological and chemical materials (such as Bacillus Anthracis, Clostridium Botulinum, Histoplasma Capsulatam, Brucella Melitensis, Clostridium Perfringens, and Clostridium tetani) sold to Iraq by US companies, and you get the full picture.



And that led to pushing Iraq out in 91 how? Paul's question and my answer dealt with Iraq losing in 91. He thought their equipment was American made. Nothing you mentioned was used in 91.
 
John Smith
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PS: And that led to pushing Iraq out in 91 how? Paul's question and my answer dealt with Iraq losing in 91. He thought their equipment was American made. Nothing you mentioned was used in 91.
The larger context of this discussion is the US foreign policy and the reasons that it's not viewed as particularly consistent, moral, or lawful by the outside world. The trailboss entered this discussion addressing some of the issues. Yeah, OK, Iraq didn't use Anthrax that he bought from American companies during the 1991 war. Does it mean that we were not in business of selling the weapons of mass distruction to the known mass murderer?
 
Paul Stevens
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The interesting thing is nobody says anything about Russia, France and China. They even sold weapons after the UN sanctions.
 
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
Yeah, OK, Iraq didn't use Anthrax that he bought from American companies during the 1991 war. Does it mean that we were not in business of selling the weapons of mass distruction to the known mass murderer?


The things sold by American companies (not the American government) to Iraq were for civilian purposes. Iraq was not on a list of countries that it was illegal to sell to. Perhaps they should have been but them I am sure plenty of posters on this list would have complained about that.
 
John Smith
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TP: The things sold by American companies (not the American government) to Iraq were for civilian purposes.
Yep, just like the French fighter jets were sold for firefighting purposes, the Russian tanks were to replace donkeys, and the Korean missiles were to be displayed in the Baghdad museum of sex.
 
High Plains Drifter
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Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
The interesting thing is nobody says anything about Russia, France and China. They even sold weapons after the UN sanctions.


If I had detailed reports of Iraqi resistance to the war, I could imagine why Hussein didn't write any thank-you notes to the Russians, French and Chinese for their largesse.
So think about it: you've got a power-mad lunatic running the country, and he can't deal in arms with several of the major powers in the world. He's got no money for nonsense like food, roads, education, but a huge earmark for weapons. This is a free market waiting to happen. No matter what you try to do to contain that market, getting the entire world to agree not to sell anything to a customer willing to spend loads of money is a problem any capitalist ought to be able to see through.
 
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
Yep, just like the French fighter jets were sold for firefighting purposes, the Russian tanks were to replace donkeys, and the Korean missiles were to be displayed in the Baghdad museum of sex.


None of those things have civilian uses. The agents sold to the Iraqis can be purchased by any government in the world because they are used for peaceful purposes. I do agree that Iraq should not have been able to buy those things but that would have required putting Iraq on a list of banned nations. Then people like you would have complained that the US was evil for doing such a terrible thing to the peaceful people of Iraq.
 
Michael Ernest
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The right to complain about how things work (or don't work) is as American as any other.
 
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