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astrology/numerology

 
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Originally posted by Mani Ram:
From the movie Matrix:

Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.

I don't care about it exactly for this same reason.


So your life is in your control ??
 
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
...The silliness of trying to make a scientific theory out of this becomes quickly apparent when you bother to think about it and ask some serious questions.


There might be a curiosity.
 
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:

If a lump of rock that exists millions of miles away can exert gravitational force on some other rock, then why can't it exert some other kind of force that we don't know about???


Well it may well do (in a very minor way), but I cant see how that force will make people born in a certain month more likely to meet a tall dark stranger, and people born in another month to get a message from a long lost friend. A lot of these astrologers simply tell a load of generic paph which almost anyone can convince themselves that it applies to them.

Originally posted by Matt Cao:

Astrology/numerology are cosmic code of you since the day your pa sperm penetrated your ma egg. Some of you are not destined to be born and some do.


Can you explain this? It doesn't make much sense to me. Are you saying that the alignment of the planets affects the chance of a sperm and egg producing a succesful birth?


All religions preachers alway tell us to stay away from bad deeds all stem from the root of astrology/numerology.


Its probably more likely to do with religions having a desire to control people. Calling a law a commandment is a good way of making people stick to it. I dont think that most of these stem from astology, although most early religions seem to be based on astronomical objects ie worship of the sun etc.


You people across cultures and religions tend not to believe it, old people do. Why? they live long enough to see the cycles of life and souls travel in packs.


I'm not sure if old people do believe in astrology more (anyone got some figures?), but if they did, that doesn't necessarily mean that this is because of observations and experience. Older people tend to be more superstitious than younger people - this is just a cultural hang over from how things used to be when they grew up. When we are old gimmers, the people of the time will probably think we are strange for some of the things we believe.
What on earth does "souls travel in packs" mean? I assume you mean as in a pack of wolves, not a pack of baked beans.
I saw an interesting programme once about the history of star signs. It turns out that the system was invented by the egyptions. As their calendar did not allow for things such as leap years, the star signs slowly moved out of sync with where they should be. The period of the year which we call "cancer" etc is now actually a different time of year to when it was first designed by the egyptions, so its a bit wrong on that count anyway.
 
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DISCLAIMER: My arguments are only to show that your arguments are not valid. It does not mean that I believe in astrology. My reasons for not relying on astrology are different.

Originally posted by Joe King:

Well it may well do (in a very minor way), but I cant see how that force will make people born in a certain month more likely to meet a tall dark stranger, and people born in another month to get a message from a long lost friend.


Let me give you a very simple example. Two whales got beached on a remote seashore at the exact same time but at different locations. One whale got back in the ocean while the other could not and died. The reason was as follows:
One whale was at a location A where high tide was about to begin while the other whale was a location B which was directly opposite (or at 90* ) where low tide was about to begin.
So you can see that the moon was same, the time was same but still the overall arrangement of the earth, the moon, and the location of the whale was such that it saved one whale but killed the other. So yes, it is possible that the same stars can affect one person in one way but another person in another way.

Originally posted by Joe King:

A lot of these astrologers simply tell a load of generic paph which almost anyone can convince themselves that it applies to them.


That is usually the case. But the presence of quacks does not mean that medical science is fake and real doctors don't exist
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
let's pretend for a moment that there really is such a force. Why would the moment of birth be significant? Is the force unable to pass through the placenta? And wouldn't the force effect everyone equally? Why would the date of my birth make a rock effect me more than it effects someone else? How does the rock know when I was born? The silliness of trying to make a scientific theory out of this becomes quickly apparent when you bother to think about it and ask some serious questions.


See my previous post on how it is possible that the forces do not affect everybody equally.
>Why would the date of my birth make a rock effect me more than it effects someone else?
That's simple. I read some research by doctors that said that children born in spring have better birth weight than children born in fall. They reason they say is mothers usually tend to retain more fats in the winter months (because they are less active) than the summer months. This gives more nutrients to the baby in the womb. So there you go. If the location on Sun at the time of you birth can affect your birth weight, why can't other stars and their location affect people differently based on their birth dates?

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

The silliness of trying to make a scientific theory out of this becomes quickly apparent when you bother to think about it and ask some serious questions.


When some people tried to prove that earth revolves round the sun instead of the reverse, people said the same thing. The idea did sound pretty silly when you can really "see" the sun going round the earth
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
It's not about stupidity. It is about gullibility and lack of specific knowledge.


Are you trying to say that you have more specific knowledge about everything and that's why it is silly to believe that stars can affect human life?
Which specific knowledge do you have that others don't have and which makes you trash astrology? Can you please be more clear?

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Some very bright people invested their fortunes in perpetual motion machines even though they are impossible and would violatee every law of physics.


Again, you are passing opinion (of millions of people) as a fact. How do you know that perpetual machines are *immpossible*? Do we know everything about physics? Is laws of physics everything? Scientists have already discovered and demonstrated super-conductivity. Isn't is a sort of perpetual machine??? Photons travel millions of lightyears in space with losing any energy. Isn't that a perpetual machine?
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:


Actually the page Thomas provided, I have answers and similar question for science also but dont have time to type here, that will take 1/2 - 1 hr of mine and I am too much busy these days ..
So let let Thomas enjoy
Chalo good night.
 
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
That's simple. I read some research by doctors that said that children born in spring have better birth weight than children born in fall. They reason they say is mothers usually tend to retain more fats in the winter months (because they are less active) than the summer months. This gives more nutrients to the baby in the womb. So there you go. If the location on Sun at the time of you birth can affect your birth weight, why can't other stars and their location affect people differently based on their birth dates?


This has nothing to do with the location of the Sun. It has to do with a woman's eating habits. And I am sure that this is not a universal effect but rather spcific to only certain women. I would bet that people near the equator don't feel this effect at all. I would bet "larger" women don't feel this effect.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
Let me give you a very simple example. Two whales got beached on a remote seashore at the exact same time but at different locations. One whale got back in the ocean while the other could not and died.

But it wasn't the moon's effect on them but rather its effect on the tides. But your theory is even more bizarre. You are saying tha two kids born thousands of miles apart will be effected identically as long as they are born at the same time. And the effect of a constellation of stars millions of light years away will have a greater effect on them than a huge star just a few million miles away.
A claim like this requires some evidence not just theorizing and there is no evidence that astrology can predict anything.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
Again, you are passing opinion (of millions of people) as a fact. How do you know that perpetual machines are *immpossible*?

How do I know that you are not a figment of my imagination? How do I know that India really exists? If perpetual motion was possible then the atoms you are made up of would fall apart. Time would run backwards or forwards with ease. If perpetual motion waas possible then there would be no entropy and without entropy the universe would be a very different kind of place.
 
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Hi Joe,
"Souls travel in packs" is nothing more than self-importance the speaker. It translates into "born and die by generation".
Planets alignment do affects the chance of a sperm & egs producing a successful birth.
Based on the client database two decades ago:
1. 90% stock brokers/enterpreneurs
2. 80% female
3. 70% above age 50
4. 60% young graduate
Each market segment has submarket sectors. I think all of you could do the math based on so many discussions.
Regards,
MCao
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
Are you trying to say that you have more specific knowledge about everything and that's why it is silly to believe that stars can affect human life?
Which specific knowledge do you have that others don't have and which makes you trash astrology? Can you please be more clear?


That's simple. I have studied magic and gullibility. I have read many articles on how to convince people that you have psychic powers. It's great at parties. You can look like the Amazing Kreskin and if you have no morals you can even get a TV show and convince people you can talk to the dead.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Matt Cao:
Planets alignment do affects the chance of a sperm & egs producing a successful birth.


Do you have any evidence for this at all?
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

This has nothing to do with the location of the Sun. It has to do with a woman's eating habits. And I am sure that this is not a universal effect but rather spcific to only certain women. I would bet that people near the equator don't feel this effect at all. I would bet "larger" women don't feel this effect.


I think summer and winter happen because of the location of the sun. earth's orbit is elliptical and in winters sun is fartest from earth. But that's not the point. You are taking my comments out of context. I was responding to Joe King who said, "I cant see how that force ...". I am not trying to prove *what* or *whether* the location of planets can predict anything. I am trying to prove that they do exert forces that may directly or indirectly affect life.
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
But it wasn't the moon's effect on them but rather its effect on the tides. But your theory is even more bizarre. You are saying tha two kids born thousands of miles apart will be effected identically as long as they are born at the same time. And the effect of a constellation of stars millions of light years away will have a greater effect on them than a huge star just a few million miles away.
A claim like this requires some evidence not just theorizing and there is no evidence that astrology can predict anything.


Again, please try to understand the context of my statement. When did I say anything about, "You are saying tha twe kids born thousands of miles apart will be effected identically as long as they are born at the same time."???
You said, "And wouldn't the force effect everyone equally?". I was just trying to show you that forces *can* affect differently based on many parameters. My example proves just that. Nothing more nothing less.
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
How do I know that you are not a figment of my imagination? How do I know that India really exists? If perpetual motion was possible then the atoms you are made up of would fall apart. Time would run backwards or forwards with ease. If perpetual motion waas possible then there would be no entropy and without entropy the universe would be a very different kind of place.


Thomas, did you even bother to read my post completely?
1. Do we know all the laws of physics?
2. Is "laws of physics" everything?
3. What is superconductivity?
 
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I think summer and winter happen because of the location of the sun. earth's orbit is elliptical and in winters sun is fartest from earth.
Summer and winter are determined by axial tilt, not distance from the sun. Remember that seasons in the southern hemisphere are six months out of phase from the northern hemisphere. So even if norther winter occurrs when the earth is farthest from the sun (and it probably doesn't, but I don't remember so let's pretend it does) then the southern hemisphere is in summer at the same time. The earth's orbital eccentricity is very small, meaning it's an ellipse that's very close to being a circle - so the effect on climate is very small. Summer is when your hemisphere is tilted toward the sun; winter is when it's tilted away. That's it.
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

That's simple. I have studied magic and gullibility. I have read many articles on how to convince people that you have psychic powers. It's great at parties. You can look like the Amazing Kreskin and if you have no morals you can even get a TV show and convince people you can talk to the dead.


This only proves that there are quacks in the market. It does not prove that there are no real doctors.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
This only proves that there are quacks in the market. It does not prove that there are no real doctors.


But it does prove there are no real astrologers. You rely on mysterious undetectable forces that effect everyone born on the same day exactly the same without any real explanation. You might as well admit that astrology is a religion because it is based on blind faith. If that is the case then I have no desire to talk you out of a religious belief.
You might as well claim that your life is controlled by little invisible fairies that hover around your head and control your destiny. it is just as real as astrology.
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
I think summer and winter happen because of the location of the sun. earth's orbit is elliptical and in winters sun is fartest from earth.
Summer and winter are determined by axial tilt, not distance from the sun. Remember that seasons in the southern hemisphere are six months out of phase from the northern hemisphere. So even if norther winter occurrs when the earth is farthest from the sun (and it probably doesn't, but I don't remember so let's pretend it does) then the southern hemisphere is in summer at the same time. The earth's orbital eccentricity is very small, meaning it's an ellipse that's very close to being a circle - so the effect on climate is very small. Summer is when your hemisphere is tilted toward the sun; winter is when it's tilted away. That's it.


Thanks for correcting me. But it is still the location of sun (how near it is to you), isnt it?
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

But it does prove there are no real astrologers.


How??

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

You rely on mysterious undetectable forces that effect everyone born on the same day exactly the same without any real explanation.


No, it does not say that. It says that effects of the planet are determined by the location+time of your birth. To gain more accuracy they also take into account the horoscope of the child's parents. The more parameters you add the more accuracy you get. That's the general idea.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

You might as well admit that astrology is a religion because it is based on blind faith. If that is the case then I have no desire to talk you out of a religious belief.


You may say that. But it is prevalent accross all religions. BTW, I do not rely on astrologers either. I am just arguing about your logic for trashing astrology.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

You might as well claim that your life is controlled by little invisible fairies that hover around your head and control your destiny. it is just as real as astrology.


Sure, you can say that. See how many people believe you.

Everything aside, I have more respect for astrology than religions. At least, in a astrology, nobody is a kafir, nobody is immoral and there is no castism either
 
Matt Cao
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Do you have any evidence for this at all?


Hi,
Read to see there is a different perception, but do not said that is God intended.
If I try to say this is the way it is, then I will be hippocrite because I alway put down people who knock on my doors and preaching gospel or convincing me to join there religion because it is better than mine.
http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/fertility.html
http://www.astrolightsoftware.com/Samples/Atalk.htm
Regards,
MCao
 
Jim Yingst
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But it is still the location of sun (how near it is to you), isnt it?
It's determined by geometric considerations, if that's what you mean. It does not have anything to do with nearness; it has to do with the angle above the horizon that you see the sun at. Take a flashlight and point it straight at a wall. You will see a spot of light on the wall. Now move the flashlight so the beam is nearly parallel to the wall, but with anough angle so the beam actually hits the wall. The light will now be in a long ellipse-like blob, notably dimmer than it was before. Because of the angle, the energy from the flashlight is now being smeared over a much wider area. So a given spot on the wall does not receive as much energy as when the light is shined directly down on it. Summer is when the sun is high in the sky, shining directly down on you; winter is when it's low in the sky, its heat diffused over a wider area.
 
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
But it is still the location of sun (how near it is to you), isnt it?
It's determined by geometric considerations, if that's what you mean. It does not have anything to do with nearness; it has to do with the angle above the horizon that you see the sun at. Take a flashlight and point it straight at a wall. You will see a spot of light on the wall. Now move the flashlight so the beam is nearly parallel to the wall, but with anough angle so the beam actually hits the wall. The light will now be in a long ellipse-like blob, notably dimmer than it was before. Because of the angle, the energy from the flashlight is now being smeared over a much wider area. So a given spot on the wall does not receive as much energy as when the light is shined directly down on it. Summer is when the sun is high in the sky, shining directly down on you; winter is when it's low in the sky, its heat diffused over a wider area.


In astrology, the sky is divided into 12 parts (one for each constellation). So when the angle on earth changes, you see the sun move from one part to another (although both earth and sun are at the same point). So yes, it's not just about nearness. What they do is that they calculate the degrees by which a planet (heavenly body, is the right term really) is in a particular constellation. There are many rules and parameters and it is just too complex to say something like, "If sun or moon is at location X, Y will happen etc.". But it boils down to the same concept.
I am not an expert in this but I have read quite a bit about it. I have some very close relatives who do this and many people consult them. I don't. But not for the reasons Tom has. It is not as trivial "thing" as Tom is trying to portray.
I believe that astrology is more an application of "correlation" theory than anything else. People have been observing stars as well as lives for thousands of years and it is very much possible that with such a large sample of data you can arrive at some correlation. Whether the stars cause something or not, I don't know (though I do believe that they could) but there can be a correlation.
The reason I don't rely on astrologer is because I believe that this correlation is not very easy to understand and I haven't met any astrologer whose abilities I can trust. But that doesn't mean there aren't any
 
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My thoughts on this...
Astrology was developed sooo long back that NOBODY knows its origin and why/how it was developed in the first place. That would make the predictions of the modern Astrologers their own interpretations of the rules laid out by this age-old Science.
After Astrology was initially designed and developed, the ways to use it to accurately predict the future was lost . After so many centuries of accurate/inaccurate interpretation we have what we have today. And it is probably nowhere close to the accuracy of the initial astrologers.
My contention is that we don't know why so many of the ancient customs/tradition were/are being followed. The reasons why they came into being are lost forever. Blindly terming something (which has been followed for so many centuries) that cannot be explained as stupid doesn't make sense. Till we can prove that astrology is nothing but a trick with 100% accuracy, there will be believers and I don't see anything wrong in that.
 
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Originally posted by Ranga Sreenivasan:
My thoughts on this...
Astrology was developed sooo long back that NOBODY knows its origin and why/how it was developed in the first place. That would make the predictions of the modern Astrologers their own interpretations of the rules laid out by this age-old Science.
After Astrology was initially designed and developed, the ways to use it to accurately predict the future was lost . After so many centuries of accurate/inaccurate interpretation we have what we have today. And it is probably nowhere close to the accuracy of the initial astrologers.
My contention is that we don't know why so many of the ancient customs/tradition were/are being followed. The reasons why they came into being are lost forever. Blindly terming something (which has been followed for so many centuries) that cannot be explained as stupid doesn't make sense. Till we can prove that astrology is nothing but a trick with 100% accuracy, there will be believers and I don't see anything wrong in that.


I think you are assuming this without knowing anything about history.
Astrology is a different and predictive astrology is a different subject. What we are talking in this thread is predictive astrology which orginates after Varahmir (The famous astrologer of the past). Before Varahmir the astrology was actually a science which involves determining the orientation of stars in the sky and through that helping the sailors to sail across the sea and for making calendars. After Varahmir the Predictive astrology originates and which is not centuries ago as given by you it was around 5-6th century BC. Before Varhamir there is no evidence of any kind of subject known as predictive astrology. Even in Rigveda the astrology mean making the calendars and determining the orientation of stars which can be seen from the earth. So it is not proper to say that predictive astrology got corrupted during the course of time so now it is not very accurate etc etc.
Ravish you are saying that astrology is a science as it contain hypothesis.
I agree but science is not something which contains only hypothesis, but a very important character of science is the hypothesis must be refutable, that is there must be something which deny the certain hypothesis then only a particular hypothesis can be called science. Predictive Astrology as a subject is not a science because it is beleived to be a perfect theory and anything perfect cannot be a science.
 
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OK then, by what mechanism does Mars travelling between us and a certain constellation lead an astrolloger to say to me "you will contact someone you haven't spoken to today", or "stay at home today, you will have bad luck"?
As for so called scientific methodology behind it, can anyone post any links to widely accepted studies showing evidence and correlations between things like star signs, their predicted effects and the actual events that happened? Believing astrology is a bit like believing Nostrodamus. A lot of what he said can be twisted to show something that has just happened, but that doesn't mean that that was what he meant. I could write a load of vague and generic stuff and call it astrology, and out there somewhere someone could believe it and think that I had figured out how to read the future.
I think its more a case of people wanting to believe that there is some way of predicting what will happen - people dont like not knowing what will happen in the future, and when someone comes along with something that appears to give an answer to it, people believe it because they want to, not because its particularly convincing. Its much the same reason why many people are religious.
 
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:
I think you are assuming this without knowing anything about history.
Astrology is a different and predictive astrology is a different subject. What we are talking in this thread is predictive astrology which orginates after Varahmir (The famous astrologer of the past). Before Varahmir the astrology was actually a science which involves determining the orientation of stars in the sky and through that helping the sailors to sail across the sea and for making calendars.


In my quest for knowing more about history this is what I came up with.
An ancient system that reveals your past, present and future, Vedic astrology has flourished in India for several thousand years. Also known as "Science of Light" this Hindu astrology is renowned for its spiritual depth and accuracy in predicting life events. Vedic astrology is a scientific study and application of the language of the heavenly bodies, as it reflects an astrologer's perception of the placement of the planets in the constellations. It is called Vedic Astrology, because the principles on which the study and interpretations are made were first enumerated in the 'Vedas' - the first treatise of ancient Hindu philosophy.
It probably would've been used by sailors, but that was not the sole purpose of this science. :roll:
Going by your statement that Varahmir was the creator of predictive astrology (btw, its not Varahmir its Maharishi Parashara who is considered the father of modern astrology), he was also directly responsible for corrupting this age-old science. What we have today is his interpretation and use of this science to predict life events.
Am I miscalculating or haven't quite a few centuries passed since 5 BC.
And I stick to my statement which is...The founders of modern astrology have not interpreted the rules/principles of this science the way its supposed to have been when it was initially conceived.
Whew...that's enough of astro-search for one day
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:
I agree but science is not something which contains only hypothesis



Let me first correct you, science is nothing but hypthesis and only hypothesis.
Theories are nothing but observations made on the basis of hypothesis.
Theory remains theory till other hypothesis proves it wrong by observation.
OK, now let us talk about astrology. It is not what is presented to us, its not about prediction of future or getting a job or chosing a field.
In nutshell astrolgy is nothing but telling chracteristics of a person born on the basis of some hypothesis.
Now whether 1/12 people of this world have same chracteristics ??
Obviously no, because time & place both matters in astrology.
And no two person can born at same time and same place. Even twins cant born at same time.
AW its more about belief, like agreeing with one theory in science.
Did you read that article in which scientists are debating that speed of light would been much faster at the time of creation of universe than what it is today ??
Do you believe in science where every next second one comes with a new hypothesis ??
 
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Let me first correct you, science is nothing but hypthesis and only hypothesis.
Theories are nothing but observations made on the basis of hypothesis.

Kind of like a chicken is nothing but egg and only egg. :roll:
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Let me first correct you, science is nothing but hypthesis and only hypothesis.
Theories are nothing but observations made on the basis of hypothesis.

Kind of like a chicken is nothing but egg and only egg. :roll:


OK, any theory from science which is not based on hypothesis ???
 
Jim Yingst
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Not that I can think of. I don't believe there are any chickens which didn't come from eggs, either. But I would never make a statement like "chickens are nothing but eggs and only eggs" - I mean, that would be pretty silly, wouldn't it?
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
I don't believe there are any chickens which didn't come from eggs, either. But I would never make a statement like "chickens are nothing but eggs and only eggs" - I mean, that would be pretty silly, wouldn't it?


I am not saying what you are interpreting.
Actually I am saying "chickens are nothing but only chickens and only chickens".
Isn't it right ??
 
Jim Yingst
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I really don't know what you mean to be saying. But what you did say was

Let me first correct you, science is nothing but hypothesis and only hypothesis.


Note that "hypothesis" and "science" are two different words. "Chickens" and "chickens" are one word. Which is where your last analogy falls flat.
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
I really don't know what you mean to be saying. But what you did say was

Note that "hypothesis" and "science" are two different words. "Chickens" and "chickens" are one word. Which is where your last analogy falls flat.


we are going in to useless discussion
I choose to lose
[ February 26, 2004: Message edited by: R K Singh ]
 
Jim Yingst
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OK. But let's remember Sameer's statement which inspired your "nothing but hypothesis" claim.

Ravish you are saying that astrology is a science as it contain hypothesis.
I agree but science is not something which contains only hypothesis, but a very important character of science is the hypothesis must be refutable, that is there must be something which deny the certain hypothesis then only a particular hypothesis can be called science. Predictive Astrology as a subject is not a science because it is beleived to be a perfect theory and anything perfect cannot be a science.


Science has a heavy emphasis on reproducible testing in order to validate results; it is here that astrology is most clearly not a science.
[ February 26, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
 
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Science has a heavy emphasis on reproducible testing in order to validate results; it is here that astrology is most clearly not a science.


How about this definition (of course from the dictionary):
Accumulated and established knowledge, which has been systematized and formulated with reference to the discovery of general truths or the operation of general laws; knowledge classified and made available in work, life, or the search for truth; comprehensive, profound, or philosophical knowledge
 
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:

Thomas, did you even bother to read my post completely?
1. Do we know all the laws of physics?
2. Is "laws of physics" everything?
3. What is superconductivity?


Speaking of pseudo-science.
1) no
2) depends on who you talk to. Are you a religious man?
3) Well it's no a perpetual-motion "machine".

"Perpetual-motion" is normally applied to classical machines. A perpetual motion machine would be one that violates the laws of thermodynamics, by allowing an initial input of energy to be used with 100% efficiency.

Superconduction is not a machine, but rather a quantum effect. Stop the lattice from jittering around so much, and the electrons can 'flow' with 'zero' resistance.

So let's treat (for a moment) this electron flow as the 'perpetual' part of our machine. What happens when you switch off the MASSIVE cooling systems that are forcing the material into a super-conducting state?

You stop getting the 'perpetual' effect. It wasn't perpetual. We were putting in FAR more energy than we were getting out. The lattice is part of the machine too. The "hidden" energy source of the perpetual motion was the energy required to cool the superconductor.
 
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Moonstruck! Does The Full Moon Influence Behavior?
Here is one study referenced from the link above: 4,190 suicides were examined in an attempt to correlate the frequency with the phase of the moon. So when are you most likely to commit suicide? Monday.
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
Moonstruck! Does The Full Moon Influence Behavior?
Here is one study referenced from the link above: 4,190 suicides were examined in an attempt to correlate the frequency with the phase of the moon. So when are you most likely to commit suicide? Monday.


So what science says about tides of sea ??
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