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Originally posted by kayal cox:
Er.. that is not always true.



I didn't claim it so, still - Is this a 100% lie?

Regards,
Tina
 
Tina Desai
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I see this discussion growing into many different issues simultaneously.

Before I join them, I would like to thank all of the ranchers who shared their opinions on this. Jason, Dave, Raghav, Mark, Ray, Rene, Adrian, David - thank you for sharing the experiences. Reading about your experiences about difficult durations made me even strongly realise the importance of finding a suitable place.

Options like 'being on a less intensive project' were always unnoticed by me. It felt like accepting a failure or doing the less 'great' work. Perhaps hearing it from all the other experienced people made a difference. I would not have accepted this option if it had come from someone totally unrelated to IT.
I also thank ranchers who have shared information resources.

My sincere thanks to all who replied!

Regards,
Tina
[ March 01, 2005: Message edited by: Tina Desai ]
 
Tina Desai
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Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:

This is one statement that I have a problem with. I cannot ask my wife to adjust; rather I won't ask my wife to adjust. Reason? Simple. When I married her my priorities changed. Now I'm part of someone else's life just as that someone else is part of my life. She has the right to my companionship, my time, my shoulder, my ears, my love. If I continued my workaholic days (of bachelorhood) then I'd be making her life miserable. There are occassions when I've to work longer hours (longer than 40hrs/week). But these are far and few in between. Neither my wife nor I have a problem with this.

[ February 28, 2005: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]



Its so unfortunate that you missed the 'tone' of the paragraph completely and picked up a single sentence.

If all I wanted was to make him adjust, I wouldn't be starting this thread here.
 
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Tina: This is more to do of the fact that taking a holiday is not easy in India. Lot of explaining to do even when you have more than 80% leaves remaining!



Me: Er.. that is not always true




Tina: didn't claim it so, still - Is this a 100% lie?



Well, your first post seemed to me like it was stating that taking leave is not easy in India as if it is an established fact. (That triggered a response like Dave's below)
I merely wanted to clarify that, that was not the circumstance in all cases. There are times when you might have to explain, and there are times when you can take a vacation by just informing your superior, and I would think this applies to most employments all over the world. That is all!

Dave: Wow, I didn't realise that. This must make things a bit stressful. I've heard its a similar story in Japan. Has anyone else had pressure not to take their full allowance of holiday time? My holiday situation is quite different ...

 
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Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:


This is one statement that I have a problem with. I cannot ask my wife to adjust; rather I won't ask my wife to adjust. Reason? Simple. When I married her my priorities changed. Now I'm part of someone else's life just as that someone else is part of my life. She has the right to my companionship, my time, my shoulder, my ears, my love. If I continued my workaholic days (of bachelorhood) then I'd be making her life miserable. There are occassions when I've to work longer hours (longer than 40hrs/week). But these are far and few in between. Neither my wife nor I have a problem with this.

[ February 28, 2005: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]



I totally agree with your statement. Very thoughtful and real.

But, my concern is at some point if you want to achieve more heights you may have to put up more and more hours(being very productive in limited time frames is not enough in some situations; this from my experience from watching higher executives I work with in my present job). In these cases, it is sure a matter of more understanding between the partners and one of them may have to cut down on their activities(unless the kids are already in college or self-sufficient or you have parents living with you and can take care of lot of activities at home). Just a observation.
 
Tina Desai
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Kayal, my reply was to Ray's whole post wherein he also stated an example

Ray:As an example I took yesterday off in the middle of a busy week. My kids did not have school, nor my wife so we all spent the day together.[QB][/QB]



Anyone can understand when he/she wants to be at home with kids. But I did not at all feel I can do it this coolly in India.

My experiences are pretty different in this regard. Sure I have got leaves for emergencies or when I was getting married. But to take a holiday because my family is at home and it would be nice if I also join is something that I find difficult to be accepted in India.

This is not only because what I have experienced but it is also what I see the people around me having to undergo.

Examples:
1. Once my elder sis was at home and when asked she said as her kid was at home, she also decided to be at home and spend time with him. She called in sick!
2. One of the lady bosses of mine was obviously not in the favours of leaves. Her face and tone made it very clear. Even when I kept the leaves to only health reasons, she always had a whole lot to ask before saying the unwilling 'umm...ok'. She at times was also like 'ok.. and what u said had happened to you the last time?'
In the later days, I used to pull a chair, keep all the previous leaves data with me, make myself comfortable and then call her up. This all for a one day leave when I was actually sick and could not even stand and talk to her.
3. One senior person in one company declared he need to go home early [6:30] that day as his grandma was serious. The moment he left, the team turned round and smiled at each other and one person exclaimed 'and just how many grandmas he has??'
4. Without giving any background about our discussion, I asked my husband - 'do you think it is easy to get a holiday in India?' He gave me a surprised look and said 'It is actually very difficult. Expecially to get it when you want and for what you want.' He is not in Java, have worked in all different companies than the ones I worked in.
5. One boss made my colleague cancel his reservation which was done 1.5 week earlier. The late work was the boss' mistake. Colleague could not make it home for Diwali. and the boss left for his town at the normal time anyway! This might happen in any country. But when my husband had to work on Christmas, he received long appreciation mails CCed to all senior concerned people and gift vouchers.
6. When my husband came onsite, he also had to look for a place. One broker asked him to come at 3pm and did not agree to meeting after 5pm.
My husband went to his boss and started explaining. The boss stopped him midway and asked 'what do you want from me?'
His reply was 'oh no - don't ask for such small things.'

He just needs to 'inform' the manager about the one day leaves. No reasons and nothing is discussed. And NO - he is not working on a less hectic project. He is directly working with the client and his client interaction is very very greater than what it was when he was in India.

Sure he has to take care of his work and plan accordingly. But this free atmosphere and trust only makes him act more responsible.

In India people need a reason which THEY feel is 'important' enough for a person to be at home. So people call in sick, make their relatives go to ICU etc - something that is serious or urgent or important from bosses/other people's point of view.

Having said all that, there was one boss out of all the others I worked with who never complained about leaves. He used to check if the leaves are remaining and if the work needs to be arranged etc. Which was very much acceptable and understood. After granting leave he used to enquire about the reason but it used to be a pretty informal conversation.
He had been out of India many a times. And clearly was one of the people who brought back few more things than just chocolates.

So, even if I had one good experience, I feel this is really very 'person dependent'.

I do not really need to enter the percentile war on this. Im happy for what you experienced. But what I experienced and what I see around is different.

Regards,
Tina
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Tina Desai:
Kayal, my reply was to Ray's whole post wherein he also stated an example




2. One of the lady bosses of mine was obviously not in the favours of leaves. Her face and tone made it very clear. Even when I kept the leaves to only health reasons, she always had a whole lot to ask before saying the unwilling 'umm...ok'. She at times was also like 'ok.. and what u said had happened to you the last time?'
In the later days, I used to pull a chair, keep all the previous leaves data with me, make myself comfortable and then call her up. This all for a one day leave when I was actually sick and could not even stand and talk to her.
5. One boss made my colleague cancel his reservation which was done 1.5 week earlier. The late work was the boss' mistake. Colleague could not make it home for Diwali. and the boss left for his town at the normal time anyway! This might happen in any country. But when my husband had to work on Christmas, he received long appreciation mails CCed to all senior concerned people and gift vouchers.


Regards,
Tina



If a manager does this in US too often, in some companies if you mention this to HR, they sure record that into the manager's profile. That could be used to fire him if needed(during downsizing).
 
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Originally posted by Tina Desai:

Options like 'being on a less intensive project' were always unnoticed by me. It felt like accepting a failure or doing the less 'great' work. Perhaps hearing it from all the other experienced people made a difference. I would not have accepted this option if it had come from someone totally unrelated to IT.



And why accept this option at all? Do not sell yourself short simply because others in similar situations have chosen a different path. The world is full of ordinary people doing ordinary work which is certainly fine and nobel, but no one ever remembers the name of the data entry clerk, do they? Don't get me wrong, focusing on job security and family life is wonderful...if that's your cup of tea. You are no less a person for it. But the glory and recognition and the flashing lights are on the stage, not in the audience.

If your company does not award you the proper exposure and recognition (e.g. your work is not appreciated and management takes all the credit), you need to find a new platform. Either your own business or another company that will allow you to develop some recognition in the field. Working long hours in itself can be counterproductive to your own sanity if you don't get anything out of it.

In the end, it all comes down to you. Every decision has consequences...it's just a matter of which ones you can live with.
 
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