Win a copy of GANs in ActionE this week in the AI forum
or WebAssembly in Action in the JavaScript forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Paul Clapham
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Knute Snortum
Sheriffs:
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Tim Cooke
  • Junilu Lacar
Saloon Keepers:
  • Ron McLeod
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Moores
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
Bartenders:
  • Joe Ess
  • salvin francis
  • fred rosenberger

Rapist gets life

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 986
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
{
she is not an object, she has her own feelings, her own wants. She is not an object that anybody can snatch, or use.
}
So let women decide what they should wear.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Its better to give him an invitation prior to that.



Whom should I invite if I am going have my lunch at beach ?
How would I know that any person is hungry near by and may snatch my food.

My understanding is that you are trying to say that one should not eat outside because there may be a hungry man who would snatch your food.

Though there is lot difference between hunger for food and sex.. but still in both case I dont think victim has any fault by opening his tiffin in public place or by wearing something which a person enjoys.

But true, different people may have different perception.

No one is wrong.. but I think for hungry person, it does not matter whether you are eating in public place or in side your home... he will steal your meal... I think punishment should be same for culprit.. and there is no fault of the victim in any case... even punishment should be doubled if perpetrator tries to give such excuses for his wrong doings.
He should be first given third degree tortured and then hanged till death.
 
R K Singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Therefore, I used to say, "Extreme beauty must be covered".



What is the enjoyment of beauty(or anything good) if it can not be appreciated.
 
R K Singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
where nice cloths = A dress by which whole body can be covered in a nice manner and a bit loose.



does finger comes under body, does face comes under body, does hand comes under body ...

how can one cover his/her whole body at 40 deg cent. ??

And how lose is lose enough to not provoke someone ??
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well, at 40 degree its better to be nude. For your information Makkah Mouzzima in Saudia Arabia is used to be very hot in summers but women there still practice hijab.

One who snatch your food should not be punished like a rapist, but the society must be punished. A person is damn hungry that he has to snatch somebodys food, its ridiculous, shameless. Nobody there just cant share food with him/her. If you are on beach then just speak loud "If somebody wants to join me mates, please". And when having food at home you must be sure that your neighbours have taken their food or will take. If any of your neighbour just slept with empty stomach just because he/she doesn't have the food to eat. Then it is very shameful to all the buddies around.

Let him enjoy your beauty, and then you enjoy rape. What else I can say because not all have the same level of endurance. As i have given the example of drugs in one of my previous post. Please refer.

Note: Its not always about winning and losing. I will say thanks to those who understood my points and has the courage to accept a good change. For more information you have to do some hardwork, you have to go for the truth.

[ May 08, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]
[ May 08, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1211
Mac IntelliJ IDE
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Adeel,

There are sick people out there who find children sexually attractive. What do you recommend in that case? that all children should also cover themselves from head to toe, so as not to provoke sexual predators?

How a woman(or for that matter, a man) should dress is part of a cultural ethos. There is no absolute right or wrong.

Women in hijaab get raped, 4 year old girls raped. 80 year old grandmothers get raped. IMO it is very immature to think that how a woman dresses, plays the major role in why a rape happens, and how to prevent it.

Sonny.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
There are sick people out there who find children sexually attractive. What do you recommend in that case? that all children should also cover themselves from head to toe, so as not to provoke sexual predators?

Women in hijaab get raped, 4 year old girls raped. 80 year old grandmothers get raped.



As I said earlier, "They are not at all innocent. They should be killed on the round-about by stones". Ofcourse there is no fault of those victims. Would it not happen that somebody steals somethings even your house is locked. They must be punished, no matter your house is locked or not. But isn't it better to lock the house?

Moreover, by seeing an Unlocked house you can control yourself, I think you dont even have to control yourself because you dont even can think to steal anything. But a thief will get an easy-hand. But by seeing a pretty woman its almost impossible to just stop yourself from watching her, noticing her way to talk, watching her way to walk. In my case, Its very difficult for me to just through out a beautiful lady from my mind. Though I haven't watched her long, its the case when my eyes just passed by her.

It took me more than two weeks to delete a Natalie Portman pic from my systems hard drive. Because I just want to see that pic twice a day or more than that. And this is to inform you, that it was just her face nothing more. I commented that pic on the original website, and my comment was like, "An extreme beauty must be covered. Because can easily drive somebody crazy, can easily steer someone away from his aim", not remember the exact. I got a deep impression. But now I am feeling fine and good.


IMO it is very immature to think that how a woman dresses, plays the major role in why a rape happens, and how to prevent it.



I have never said it plays a major role. But it plays a slight role. For a complete prevention, the law from up above must be followed. Some of the examples are:

- If somebody steals something, then cut his/her hand. No mercy, once you have the case in the court, you must execute the punishment.
- If somebody rapes someone, then he, may be she, must be killed on the round-about in public by stone, so all can see how that buddy ends up.

Punishments are always necessary. Preventions and punishments goes parallel. But how you can we prevent if somebody doesn't do anything but stare at you. You are not able to slap him always. And I am like, going to kill that buddy if that buddy stares at my wife, sister, or someone else etc. But I think killing him is too much, just for staring. So, better we care, because how many of those you will kill.
[ May 09, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]
 
R K Singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Well, at 40 degree its better to be nude. For your information Makkah Mouzzima in Saudia Arabia is used to be very hot in summers but women there still practice hijab.



Hijab is the worst thing that a woman may go thorugh.

Covering your face?? Face is the identity of a human. Name may change, religion may change but face, face remain same. Hijab advocates to cover women's face, which is not only to supress woman's identity but also to supress her sprit.

AW there are people who wear sleeveless at 10 degree. So what is the point. Have you ever asked whether she want to uncover from it at 40 deg.??

I am sure she wants.

but the society must be punished.
I am thinking of a society were woman has to cover herself from head to toe so that men around her should not get aroused ?? Is all men's dignity too low that they may provoked by face of a woman.

A person is damn hungry that he has to snatch somebodys food, its ridiculous, shameless.
How can I know that that person is hungry, is my question ??

I find it ridiculous to stand at beach and "shout" that anyone who wants to share food can share with me.

I find it impractical to knock on my all neighbours door and ask whether they had dinner or they have food for dinner.

Let him enjoy your beauty, and then you enjoy rape.
Why should I enjoy rape.. why not rapist get a sentence such that other people like him think 100 times before they go out of their control.

i have given the example of drugs in one of my previous post. Please refer.
I know how people try to leave drugs or cigarette. I, myself had tasted drugs... I have been people who take drugs. And I know people who are now not drug addict. None of them have told me not to make roll infront of them or not to smoke infront of them.

There is lot of difference between reality and theory.


Note: you have to go for the truth.
Truth as suggested earlier is multidimensional. What is truth for you may not be true for me. Though it may lead to same thing. [in this case, rape should not happen and rapist should be punished]

Wish that people, understand that its my right to wear whatever I want.. and none has right to touch me without my consent.
[ May 09, 2005: Message edited by: R K Singh ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2596
Android Firefox Browser Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Like I mentioned earlier, a lot depends on where a person is coming from. A "decent dress" is a relative term and also depnds on where it was worn -- as in it's common to have common swimming pool for men & women in India and women there would wear swimsuits/bikini. No big deal.... in fact I think helthy society should have more of such interaction between men and women.

Nevertheless, linking rape to dress is too much for me to take!!! I am tempted to say few "not so nice" things when it comes to hijab and all, so I better not say them...

A sher, not really releveant but fwiw, by Ahmed Faraz (sb do translation) -

Na tu khuda hai, na mera ishq farishton jaisa;
Dono insaan hai to phir kyon hijabo me mile..

- Manish
 
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2596
Android Firefox Browser Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by R K Singh:


Wish that people, understand that its my right to wear whatever I want.. and none has right to touch me without my consent.



Exactly!!!

Depending on culture and general outlook of the society, I as a brother/father may be concerned about my sis/daughter wearing shorts or off-shoulder in public places because of the men letching at her; but I long for a society where she doesn't need to worry about that. And Mumbai and many places in India are indeed used to be safe havens for women. I had many female friends who'd wear such clothes comfortably.

I somehow get disturbed when certain clothes/principles which are part of certain culture/society are presented as gospels. In another place and time, they sound ridiculous & irrelevant, why can't we understand that???

- Manish
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by R K Singh:
Hijab is the worst thing that a woman may go thorugh.



You cant say anything. If you are in india, then please ask the ladies in UP whether hijab is good or not? or are they suppressed to do that? if you can.


Covering your face?? Face is the identity of a human. Name may change, religion may change but face, face remain same. Hijab advocates to cover women's face, which is not only to supress woman's identity but also to supress her sprit.



Human beings are different. They can be recognized by finger prints also. Face is also gets change with the age, by make up, change in style; like shorten your hairs. We usually cant identify a person we saw 10 years back. But I am getting your point. We must identify a woman, when need to. Reality is you are really getting deeper and deeper. Here I cant say more because practicing parda is not the only thing we need. All the things are related to one another. You need a clear and comprehensive material and a bit research. I would like to refer you to IRF (Islamic Research Fopundation). You can get CDs, Audio Cassettes, and books from Zakir Naik, and Sheikh Ahmed Deedat. Those are easily available. You can also attend IRF Debates and Seminars where you can ask, whatever question you like. You will find some of the links in my signatures, If you are really interested.


AW there are people who wear sleeveless at 10 degree. So what is the point. Have you ever asked whether she want to uncover from it at 40 deg.??
I am sure she wants.



Yes. And the answer was "No, I dont want to. Its my right and God knows us better then us". I am not jerking here. You can also ask the ladies around you practicing Hijab.

BTW, why they wear sleeveless at 10?



I am thinking of a society were woman has to cover herself from head to toe so that men around her should not get aroused ?? Is all men's dignity too low that they may provoked by face of a woman.



They get aroused? Its nature. If not then can you answer my questions in one of my previous posts? one of that question is why you need a nude woman in a commercial of woman fragrance? Why nude?. Why some of the women wear sleeveless at 10?


How can I know that that person is hungry, is my question ??

I find it ridiculous to stand at beach and "shout" that anyone who wants to share food can share with me.

I find it impractical to knock on my all neighbours door and ask whether they had dinner or they have food for dinner.



Its not like that. I was meant by saying that you should know your neighbours financial conditions.

Have you ever experienced that somebody snatched your food? But we are experiencing rapes. If somebody is damn hungry and snatched somebodys food. What you say he must be punished? Why he is hungry? What you think he didn't already asked for food first and then go for snatching kind of option?
I think yes. Its starvation which suppressed him to snatch somebodys food. May be the pain was unbearable. So isn't it better when we see or feel somebody looking like hungry, we invite them.


Why should I enjoy rape.. why not rapist get a sentence such that other people like him think 100 times before they go out of their control.



Thats what I already said. But its alone doesn't work for sure. Prevention is necessary. As I have given the example of the movie "40 days 40 nights".


I know how people try to leave drugs or cigarette. I, myself had tasted drugs... I have been people who take drugs. And I know people who are now not drug addict. None of them have told me not to make roll infront of them or not to smoke infront of them.



May be you have that much endurance. But not everybody have that much endurance.


Truth as suggested earlier is multidimensional. What is truth for you may not be true for me. Though it may lead to same thing. [in this case, rape should not happen and rapist should be punished]



Truth is truth. Like Sun is the truth for me and you both, Night is the truth for me and you both, God is the truth for me and you and for all. Truth is the same for everyone. It is something else, sometimes we misunderstands truth, we gets the truth late, we neglects the truth.

"A man cant even stop his mind from thinking for a while, So how can he run his mind all the time"

A man cant figure out truth. Its God who unviels the truth and fake. God creates man and woman. He gave you all the things. So, its thee who decide how should we live to get the best. Better study your religions and come together on the similar points. We will talk on the differences latter. First get together on the same points.


Wish that people, understand that its my right to wear whatever I want.. and none has right to touch me without my consent.



Cant come true. Its depend how rational your want is.

- What if some man just want to be naked, or just in underwear all the time, in the market place, in restaurants, and all. Its ridiculous you are not alone in this world.

- What is indian girls say that we also need a a day for nude walk, somebodys sister or mother join that walk as a participant.

- What if somebodys mother, sister, or wife says I want to go out with you just in under garments? Its ridiculous.

- What if somebodys girlfriend/wife wants to have sex with his friends? again irrational.

Atleast I really cant let my sis, mom, wife, go that way. Its just like animals. Even animals doesn't bear their sex partners doing sex with someone else. When they feel something is wrong, they fight for their females. Because they cover their females, but we can. We are Humans, should behave like humans, should care about the society, dont be like "I want to go this way, you please mind your own business".
 
Sonny Gill
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1211
Mac IntelliJ IDE
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:

I commented that pic on the original website, and my comment was like, "An extreme beauty must be covered. Because can easily drive somebody crazy, can easily steer someone away from his aim", not remember the exact. I got a deep impression. But now I am feeling fine and good.



Adeel,

I think you mean well, but may be you are confusing some issues here.

IMO, and we all have our opinions that keep changing as we grow and mature, beauty is not sinful, it is not something to be kept hidden, or be ashamed of.

If you find that beauty drives you crazy, you probabely need to do some soul searching. Probabely, there are some deeper issues you need to deal with. I guess we all have to deal with such issues at some stage, since most of us grow up being taught that sex is sinful, or something to be ashamed of. Do not confuse a health natural desire for sex with the madness and violence of a rapist. That's all I can say.

I hope I did not cause any offence.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 54
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am extremely handsome and all girls/women are behind me.Should I be covered?
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 8943
Firefox Browser Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Dipak Mahbubani:
I am extremely handsome and all girls/women are behind me.Should I be covered?



clothes or insurance?
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
I think you mean well, but may be you are confusing some issues here.

IMO, and we all have our opinions that keep changing as we grow and mature, beauty is not sinful, it is not something to be kept hidden, or be ashamed of.

If you find that beauty drives you crazy, you probabely need to do some soul searching. Probabely, there are some deeper issues you need to deal with. I guess we all have to deal with such issues at some stage, since most of us grow up being taught that sex is sinful, or something to be ashamed of. Do not confuse a health natural desire for sex with the madness and violence of a rapist. That's all I can say.



Its very good, Sonny. I do agree with you. My request is just read and do research on Who are you? Why you are here? Whats the reason behind our creation? Whether the creator, who made us, give some sort of instructions like, what to do, what not to do? Whether we have something, some book which tells us how we should live our lives? Why death is a must? Some people gets injustice here in this world, so when they will get justice? What will happen after death? Atleast practice your own religion. In order to become a good human being we should know and practice our religion's fundamentals. No matter if you are christian, Muslim, Hindu, Budhist, etc. As a scientist should know the fundamentals of science in order to become a good scientist, a mathematician should know the fundamentals of Mathematics in order to become a good mathematician. So, its better to know and practice the fundamentals of your own religion to become a good human being.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Dipak Mahbubani:
I am extremely handsome and all girls/women are behind me.Should I be covered?



You will not get raped. Take my words as gurantee.

I think we all are saying the same thing. The difference of opnion comes when it is about, "How a woman should dressed up". I agree with Sonny that we change time to time, our opinions gets change. So, may be our thought would get changed after some experience, after realizing something, after research.
[ May 09, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]
 
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2596
Android Firefox Browser Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
So, its better to know and practice the fundamentals of your own religion to become a good human being.



I beg to differ, I don't have to follow fundamentals of *ANY* relgion to be a good human being. I can simply listen to my conscience. I have known lot of good human beings who were atheist and did not follow any religious practice.

A research is a serious term -- let's not use it frivolously. Here it seems that the theory is ready, and only supporting facts/evidances are produced.

- Manish
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
A research is a serious term -- let's not use it frivolously. Here it seems that the theory is ready, and only supporting facts/evidances are produced.



Yes, it is like that. Some people know it, some do not. Some accept it, Some do not. Its on you what category you prefer.

I just meant to say that study your own religion. Because I believe no religion teaches us anything bad.

Moreover, I believe. Man's sexual desire arises while seeing a nude woman or seeing a woman in short dress. Ofcourse its not usually leads to rape, nor it should be. As I have given the examples of some commercials. Its a clear example how women are getting treated by society. I really hate when women are objectified. I have seen many of the paintings in which a nude woman hidden in the background, or sometimes it is a clear nude lady there. Why not a man? Women are being objectified since long ago. And I hate this. Thats all. Dont know you people are getting me or not.
[ May 09, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3143
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:

You shouldn't wear those provocative dresses in front of all greedy peoples out there. ofcourse please yourself, your boyfriend/husband. Its a good to wear attractive cloths for your husband.



So, I should, because I am a weak and feeble woman dress to please the man in my life but hide from everyone else?

I'm going to take lots of deep breaths and IF at some point I can come back with a response to this that will not break the rules I laid out earlier I'll get back to you.
 
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3143
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Not everybody can control himself.



1. Yes they can. But not everybody WANTS to. Having a sexual urge and acting on it are two different things, rapists don't understand that. Also I believe I've read a few times that for many rapists, the act isn't even really about sex ... it's about power.

2. Women have sexual urges too you know. If we see a guy who looks good to us then we desire him, he may be wearing something that highlights a particular part of his body that may increase that desire. That however is no excuse for raping him. Again I'll remind you that women can be rapists too and men can be rape victims.
 
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3143
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:


You will not get raped. Take my words as gurantee.




How can you offer that guarantee?
OK the odds are he won't but it's not an impossible scenario.


as this story shows

I appreciate that you are not advocating rape or supporting rapists, but I personally find you attitude towards women offensive.

Are women less than men?
Should they be treated with less respect?
Should they have fewer rights?
Do their feelings and opinions not matter?

Your posts have seemed to answer "yes" to all of these questions, and that makes me very sad.
If a woman chooses to go through Hijab then I respect her choice if she has truely made it for herself after learning and understanding all of the options available to her.
If she goes through it because she feels she has to because of rules set up by men who are so frightened of arousal that they must cover their women then I am both sorry and indeed ashamed. And this "I don't want another man looking at 'my' woman" argument is so unbelievably arrogant, selfish and ridiculous I don't know where to start.
No person "belongs" to another.
I look at married men all the time. There are quite a few I find sexually attractive, I have no intention of acting on it, no harm is done. Where's the problem?

Equally, if I were a man I'd be equally offended by some of your assertions.

Are men so primative that they cannot feel sexual desire and not act on it?
Do men have no self-restraint at all?
 
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3143
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oh and can we please keep Religion out of this conversation ... it'll only turn nasty.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:


1. Yes they can. But not everybody WANTS to. Having a sexual urge and acting on it are two different things, rapists don't understand that. Also I believe I've read a few times that for many rapists, the act isn't even really about sex ... it's about power.

2. Women have sexual urges too you know. If we see a guy who looks good to us then we desire him, he may be wearing something that highlights a particular part of his body that may increase that desire. That however is no excuse for raping him. Again I'll remind you that women can be rapists too and men can be rape victims.



This is what I was expecting. Here comes the one who realized the truth.
I agreed strongly with your second point and weakly with your first point . I am kiddin both points are well said.

You will find I have said in one of my early posts, " .. he, may be she, must be killed on the round about and so so so so".

I just want you to read "The rights of women in Islam" its well written. You will find this article in two parts on IRF. The link is under my signature.

Again, its really glad to see your post. Its quite rational, I must say.
Thanks.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
So, I should, because I am a weak and feeble woman dress to please the man in my life but hide from everyone else?

I'm going to take lots of deep breaths and IF at some point I can come back with a response to this that will not break the rules I laid out earlier I'll get back to you.



 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
How can you offer that guarantee?
OK the odds are he won't but it's not an impossible scenario.



I was kiddin. Ofcourse its not impossible, but rare/exceptional.
 
Greenhorn
Posts: 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:

You cant say anything. If you are in india, then please ask the ladies in UP whether hijab is good or not? or are they suppressed to do that? if you can.



Why is every one dragging UP? As the men in UP do not respect womem.
there are criminals in each and every city/state and country.

Rape for punishment : Death
 
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3143
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Exactly, can we please keep Religion and Nationality out of this or I'll be forced to lock the thread and I don't want to because I'm finding this discussion quite interesting.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by achit bhatnagar:
Why is every one dragging UP? As the men in UP do not respect womem.
there are criminals in each and every city/state and country.



. No its not like that. Actually you can easily find a woman practicing hijab in UP. I like men belong to UP.


Punishment for Rape: death



We all agreed with this point.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Exactly, can we please keep Religion and Nationality out of this or I'll be forced to lock the thread and I don't want to because I'm finding this discussion quite interesting.



Ok. Religion and Nationality out.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Are women less than men?
Should they be treated with less respect?
Should they have fewer rights?
Do their feelings and opinions not matter?

Your posts have seemed to answer "yes" to all of these questions, and that makes me very sad.



No, May be you missed some of the points I raised in my previous posts.

- I hate those who objectified a woman
- see my previous post on commercials
- see my post on paintings
- In one of my previous post, I said, "Woman has their own feelings, their own wants and those does matter"

After reading those, I hope you will find that I really respect women.


If a woman chooses to go through Hijab then I respect her choice if she has truely made it for herself after learning and understanding all of the options available to her.



Me too.


If she goes through it because she feels she has to because of rules set up by men who are so frightened of arousal that they must cover their women then I am both sorry and indeed ashamed.



Rules shouldn't be by any of them. But the creator of them. As almost all the man-made things comes with a user manual, and that user manual is from the vendor. So, rules for human beings should also be from their vendor. Oop!! it is again going towards religion. Sorry.


And this "I don't want another man looking at 'my' woman" argument is so unbelievably arrogant, selfish and ridiculous I don't know where to start.
No person "belongs" to another.



I disagree at some extent. because practically, its is like that.

- i feel pain when my son/daughter leave me alone
- i feel pain when my wife used to have sex with someother guy
- i feel pain when some of my friend leave me when i want him to be with me
- we dont own anybody. but our family, friends, relatives belongs to us

You can say, I am quite possessive in that matter. Me and my lady are like that. I dont stare at any girl, usually control. Sometimes found it difficult but i am doing it successfully. Nor my fioncee stares at any man.

Note:

- We have some relations to whom we dont have to do Hijab and all. But its about religion. So forget it.
- You can take 'any' as stranger man/woman.
[ May 09, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Its going off topic.

So, We all agreed on.

- Rapists are not at all innocent and must be punished
- Most of us suggested death for them

Me and Angela agreed some more points other than mentioned above.

- Woman and man both sexually get aroused by seeing someone beautiful and handsome, respectively. But that should not leads to rape.
- Mans are over-reacting because of power.

Now me off. Because nobody is reading my all the posts .
Kiddin
 
R K Singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:

Truth is truth. Like Sun is the truth for me and you both,



But you may enjoy sunlight but I avoid sunlight as I get sunburns if I go out in sun light.
Same Truth has different meanings for different people.

If I see a cow, I might offer it grass, but some other person might think of choping it and eating it.
Truth is that its a cow for me and for others also.

Naga people might think of eating your dog which you think is pet for you.

Application of truth is different for different people.
ANd that makes truth multidimensional.
 
R K Singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
God creates man and woman.



Again its debatable, God created men or men created God.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Besides rape, religion, and nationality. My perception is if woman doesn't cover herself, her body parts, then she would always be objectified by this world. May be there is a difference of opinion but this is the impression I got from this world. As I have given some examples of paintings, movies, commercial, and etc.

I dont want woman as an object therefore I vote for Hijab.

Thanks for bearing me.
 
R K Singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 5390
1
Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
I dont want woman as an object therefore I vote for Hijab.



Oh Adeel..

Its not about religion, nation or anything...

No one wants to see woman as object.. as much you and me enjoy blue film.. women enjoy also...

Its all about not making woman an object.

I might be wrong, but covering something[in our case woman]; one creates more suspicion. It more objectify the woman. What is behind that clothe ??

Everyone knows, it looks like mother or sister..
If it look like mother and sister then why it should be covered ??

Even after 10 yr when you meet someone you recognize them by their face. Tell me if I cover face of all human, then how will you recognise your friend?? You dont recognise your friend from his finger print :-|

Every culure/religion is good if it is under your control.. the moment culture or religion controls you, it means something is wrong.

How much I understand, religions come and go.. its man who survives.
There was man before Jesus/Allah/Ram .. and still its man who survives. None of these God/s is coming to help. You have to help yourself.

There are rules defined by all religions... but they were good at that time, Not now.

Every religion has relation with science.. but it had relation with science that was available at that time.

Please.. dont get me wrong.. I am not talking about religion here.

I am trying to say that woman has right to do/wear what she wants. If any religion teaches something diffrent then its time to change that religion not the woman.

I have seen all religion of past somehow try to suppress woman. But that was the time when woman's job was to bear child and cook food. But if you allow her to do things what you do then give her the freedom too, the same freedom what you enjoy. [for a change be in Hijab for a month so that no woman can rape you]

And its not about UP or Hyderabad.. (believe me in Hyderabad there is more Burqa than UP). In UP even muslims put 'Sindoor'.
Religion and culture go hand by hand.. and in US no one puts 'Sindoor'
And they are not wrong ..
 
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2596
Android Firefox Browser Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by R K Singh:
I am trying to say that woman has right to do/wear what she wants. If any religion teaches something diffrent then its time to change that religion not the woman.



Exactly!!!

Adeel, please don't get us wrong...you're saying that your beliefs (or beliefs of certain religion & culture) are *the truth*. You're perhaps confusing "should" with "must", fomer may indicate sth moral and later indicates legal. Clothes, accepatable limits of openness, pre-marital sex ...it all depends on the contemporary society and cuture...it's relative, no absolutes here!! And hence no religion or reliious beliefs should advocate what ppl should do 1000 years after it has been written. Just my thoughts...

- Manish
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1241
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Besides rape, religion, and nationality. My perception is if woman doesn't cover herself, her body parts, then she would always be objectified by this world.[...]

I dont want woman as an object therefore I vote for Hijab.



But by asking a women, but not men to cover up, then you are signifying that they are somehow different. This, to me, does more to make women appear as objects then simply looking at them.

Covering women also objectifies men as well. It sends a message that men cannot control their urges and should be protected against the threat of the physical aspects of women. I'd like to think that most men have a bit more control then that.

True, there are a number of rapists out there, but these are mentally sick people. The urges and motivations of their sick minds which lead them to rape will still be there if their potential targets (male or female) are covered up. They will still encounter events which lead them to want to satisfy their urges.

Another possibly bad factor of a cultural pressure to cover up women is that it could lead to a situation where rape is more common. One issue which has not been touched upon yet in this conversation is "domestic rape", when a person is raped by their spouse. In a society where a male dominated culture imposes differences and limits upon females, its possible that some people may come to believe that it is right that men are dominant over females, and have the right to control them. Ideas such as the theory that women should remain covered for all people, except for her husband, who she should look nice for kind of imply a level of ownership of her physicality by the husband. Could this not lead to situations where the husband demands sex from his wife who, while unwilling, believes that it is her role to provide it?
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1066
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
Ideas such as the theory that women should remain covered for all people, except for her husband, who she should look nice for kind of imply a level of ownership of her physicality by the husband. Could this not lead to situations where the husband demands sex from his wife who, while unwilling, believes that it is her role to provide it?



That is also considered as a rape and the husband should be punished.
(Adeel may not agree to this )

One should wear clothers that make them feel comfy and happy. Nobody is an object or a slave. Anything that comes in between is against the values of freedom, no matter what the Sun, Moon and the Stars say.
 
Adeel Ansari
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2874
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Can you people say something on my post at May 10, 2005 12:11 AM??

Why we say the term "wife swapping" why not "husband swapping"?

What punishment you suggest for one who stared at a woman without her permission?

What punishment you suggest for one who passed a flying kiss to woman without her permission?
 
And will you succeed? Yes you will indeed! (98 and 3/4 % guaranteed) - Seuss. tiny ad:
Java file APIs (DOC, XLS, PDF, and many more)
https://products.aspose.com/total/java
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!