Classic Movies/Novels

[Doug Slattery]

..and yet the totaly over the top "We're Knights of the round table, we dance whenever we're able..." musical theatre sequence in HG didnt bother you?

Funny that I forgot that part until reading this. My mind must have blocked it out .

So Chicago, with lots of pretty woman with very little clothes on, but lots of song and dance was not on your list?

How about State Fair with Pat Boone and a young and very hot Ann Margeret dancing and singing as a sinful show girl?

I didn't see either of them... However, Rush Hour 3 had a scene like those two, which I probably wouldn't have taken the kids if I had known



Aloha,
Doug

-- Nothing is impossible if I'mPossible

[Marko Kencheto]

Film 'Ruby & Quentin - Der Killer und die Klette' with Jean Reno and Gerard Depardieu and others: good comedy!

[Nicholas Jordan]

Originally posted by marc weber:
(...snip...) really stands out in terms of editing and camera work (and dramatic production design in the final scenes.

Action, all action - zero plot. Drama is talking heads. Unless you infer production design to be the norm of plot-driven, mainstream Hollywood cinema, then we can classifiy the ability of a work, at retail, to retain a central issue or subject to be retained throughout the running time of the film to define production quality.

SLV was financed by an organizing financial entity with real accounting controls. Most indies are financed in a chaotic control model. S�derberg, who fell at the heavy hands of budgeted works, was later found making talking heads. A better model of indie survival was demonstrated by "Rebel Without a Crew" - and remains today as a classic of indie work. Powerhouse studios routinely finance historic and compelling indie works, see "The Making of <EM>"And God Spoke..."</EM>" as an informed study of how to do this.

Production quality is the ability to implement those lessons. The news today of Hanna Montanna ( who can kick Brit's butt in any indie work ) will go over with the talking heads like a straight jacket at a tweed sport jacket design conference.

The Famine Stele probably was carved during Ptolemaic times, but claims to record events of the time of Djoser, in the 3rd Dynasty. Some Egyptologists think that it recalls a genuine decree issued by Djoser, others consider it to be more historic than compelling. If I hit the big time doing this computer stuff,it is on my short-list to do a super-16 one-reel with an Eclair NPR documenting the fictional Free-Toe Empire's influence on Ancient Egyptian stelas by The Amazon. I could use you for a P.A. on the basis of the caliber of work here at J.R. Saloon.

 

[ April 29, 2008: Message edited by: Nicholas Jordan ]

[marc weber]

Originally posted by Nicholas Jordan:
... Action, all action - zero plot. Drama is talking heads...

I say, "Plot, schmlot." And I'm even less interested in action. I've heard Guy Maddin suggest that irony is overused these days, and old-time melodrama is underrated.

So behold the unbridled melodrama, silly clich�s, and stilted acting of Gun Crazy!

The camera work I'm referring to is the long tracking shots, especially unusual for 1949. In particular, I'm thinking of the robbery scene in which the camera rides along in the backseat of the car while navigating actual city streets, then dollies on a special track into the front seat and pans to "look" out the open door at a building exterior while the robbery is in progress (during which sound was captured by a microphone boom on the roof of the car), then retreats into the back seat again for the get away. During the driving portions of this shot, the actors even make a rare improvised departure from their otherwise overworked script.

In addition to long tracking shots, the editing I'm referring to is some incongruent "morality" scenes the studio insisted on, in which the protagonists express requisite misgivings about their life of crime. (If I remember correctly, these were shot long after everything else, so there are numerous ways in which they don't fit.)

The production design in the final scenes includes a foggy marsh set that's extremely minimal and starkly lit for an expressionistic feel (heightened by the black and white). It's a surreal departure from the conventional sets and lighting used in the balance of the film. The sound undergoes a similar transformation, filling in for the lack of visuals. Even the pace slows. This was all very daring for a climax sequence in 1949. (I've read that Guy Maddin uses this film when teaching, and these final scenes definitely have a Maddin feel to them.)

Soderbergh seems to live in both worlds. He makes studio films (like Traffic or Oceans 11, 12, 13...) for the money, but continues to intersperse these with low-budget, experimental films (like Schizopolis or Full Frontal). For example, Bubble was shot in 2005 on digital, using location sets without dressing or lighting, and non-actors improvising a loose script. In addition, it challenged distribution dogma by debuting on DVD the same week it appeared in theaters.

(Yes, Sex, Lies, and Videotape (SLV) was an early Miramax production, so it wasn't exactly indie indie. But its success opened the distribution door for indies with far less backing, and it was important in getting some producers to realize that low-budget films can make money.)
[ April 29, 2008: Message edited by: marc weber ]

[Pat Farrell]

The Gods Must Be Crazy (1980)

Great quote:
Steyn: What do you know about women?
Mpudi: I got seven wives, how many you got?
Steyn: Why aren't you home with your seven wives?
Mpudi: I know how to marry them. Nobody knows how to live with them.

[Nicholas Jordan]

Da Killer und de Kittie - Originally "Shut up and Die"
So behold the unbridled melodrama, silly clich�s, and stilted acting of Gun Crazy!

I have been too far down the pike, I cannot watch gunplay on television. Maybe in a real war zone, actual footage or something ~ it does not bother me. I work in an industry where the sort of stunts we see, though very effective for story telling, are mentally discomforting for me because of their inane actuality. Stunt supervisor would have to be someone I can work with.

I would have cut at retreats into the back seat again for the get away to medium on vehicle passenger side front to show exit from robbery. Improvised as needed by actors, all camera must ( to work on set ) be able to get acetate going through the gate in a matter of minutes. Actors drive the pace, not schedule driving actors.

I'm referring to is the long tracking shots

There was a cinematographer at SWSX who worked on a movie that was produced by a director who believed that every roll of film should be taken in one continuous run of the camera. I was sitting there on what was a slow afternoon watching what was otherwise a dis-ingenious ( usual talking heads ) work and suddenly I saw a masterwork of the style developing. I was pulled to the edge of seat by the need to see if this was going to do something. It just kept getting deeper and deeper, as though there was no end - it sorta became hypnotic and vowed to not let it do that if I ever had a chance to do that style. That cinematographer was the cinematographer. All of the details of the shot were explained. It all matched up.

Cuts have to be done, film school has to be obeyed - to some as yet undetermined extent - looking at Guy Maddin on imdb I speculate that he makes it all fit. IOW has been to film school. Niel Stone told me I need to go to film school. Why ? If they put stuff like Guy Maddin on market and it sells, then we know right there we have a indie 'marketability' issue. I make it point-blank ( which is about as far as I will go with gunplay in the work ) that we will respect the studio need to produce marketable product, and we want to have accounting controls such that only money that recognizes the nature of the work will have significant stake in the work.

Usually, such stake constitutes a wooden stake in the heart of the project.

overworked script

The problem here is striking a balance between the realities of prodution vis-a-vis the nature of what we are trying to do. Big-Buck Actors can walk on the set at 10:22 deliver the take and be released at time for lunch. Almost never happens that way but it can be done. That is the power that professionals CAN deliver. Being able to do that means being able to present a budget at pre-production, something I could not do.

The production design in the final scenes includes a foggy marsh set that's extremely minimal and starkly lit for an expressionistic feel

Good, commercial work does not change the look and feel anywhere in the production, they carry it through from opening title to last frame trailing credits. You can take all the credit, you are already used to it with your grill. The less that changes after production begins is better for planning. I already have a business name: "Hollywood Sucks Film Company" What we do is take all of the framework on consumer-grade videocam, with all the dollying and delivery almost full worked out as well as the ability to deliver the soul of the film shown by candidate actors right there on the pre-shoot

If big studio, they will have enough writers and professionals as understudy that they can fill in <EM>everything</EM> if we weasel out and weaken ~ or do not have the skills and resources to complete.

Soderbergh does live in both worlds. He makes sits up in the hotel room and watches out for the money, but comes to the set and will intersperse these with low-budget, real life people that make up the bulk of programmers that enjoy programming for it's own sake.

Experimental films shot digital, using real location and not fake sets do have to have some dressing and lighting. Non-actors improvising a loose script bring horrors to actuaries and insurance companies, but a risk can be calculated if we have a real stunt department. I meet with stunts BEFORE there is even a bs grade draft budget. Same as Robert Rodriguez met with ICM before any filmography or discussions were scheduled. Peak of the film is Niurka Marcos or best we can get in that style doing a full foward flip off an elevated platform onto a breakaway lower platform that collapses onto the actual stage floor with acoustic enhancement below the 20 hz lower hearing limit and all ushers standing by with medical grade nitro-glycerine in the aisle.


In addition, it challenged distribution dogma by debuting on DVD the same week it appeared in theaters.

New Line Cinema is our chosen Major Studio. If they can market it in theatres, then we get out of the way. No strong promises of helping them but we damn sure don't stop them.

But its success opened the distribution door for indies with far less backing, and it was important in getting some producers to realize that low-budget films can make money.)


Big studios know specialty films can be bottom line respectable, you just cannot bring a billion dollar leviathan to server a squeakin mouse.

Cue Cat: ( replicates Niurkas' stunt ) ( chases mice in temple of patar )

[marc weber]

Originally posted by Nicholas Jordan:
... Cuts have to be done, film school has to be obeyed...

I haven't seen it yet, but Russian Ark is a single tracking shot that lasts 90 minutes. It was apparently shot on digital video using a special disc.

I don't think Guy Maddin ever attended film school, but I would say he's one of film's most devoted students. In the realm of "classic art house," Maddin certainly deserves a nod. To me, Tales from the Gimli Hospital will always be a classic. (And I find his twisted humor hysterical.)

[Pat Farrell]

Originally posted by Nicholas Jordan:
I have been too far down the pike, I cannot watch gunplay on television.

I don't know that much about guns, but I know about vehicle dymanics. I've raced at Daytona, Charlotte and many other places. Car wrecks in the movies are complete fiction. They nearly always end with the car going up in a fireball. Its expected, its required. It nearly never happens in real wrecks, even with civilian cars without fuel cells, etc.

Hint, if you have two cars side by side, you can't force one out of the lane if the other just turns the wheel into you. Well, perhaps a race car with slicks could against a car on street tires, but physics doesn't work that way.

They do little things, like put a telephone pole hinged at the rear bumper and explosively loaded so the front will dig in, so the car can get thrown in the air. Like that happens all the time.

Back OT, how about The Red Balloon? Its a classic, altho its a short.

[Nicholas Jordan]

Originally posted by Pat Farrell:
(...snip...)
I've raced at Daytona, Charlotte and many other places.

Finally, something about you that I could not anticipate. I have contemplated that many times and could not come up with anything.

Car wrecks in the movies are complete fiction. They nearly always end with the car going up in a fireball. Its expected, its required. It nearly never happens in real wrecks, even with civilian cars without fuel cells, etc.

They use a mini-boiler, replete with certification, to make the steam from radiator effect. Very realistic compared to other issues here. In an actual impact there is often a partial or full failure of radiator hoses. This contrasts with the rest of our observation. Wanna be the stunt driver ? Not much just a few power slides and maybe a few fender benders. I can do the stunt first to show what I want, it is easy for me to visualize how something will come out on film and I can do the vehicle dynamics well enough to stage the few vehicle-actions we need.

Hint, if you have two cars side by side, you can't force one out of the lane if the other just turns the wheel into you. Well, perhaps a race car with slicks could against a car on street tires, but physics doesn't work that way.

No slicks, we will get enough of those as nephews ( duh,... humor )

No actually RaceMasters will be mostly Cats. Reality TV shows law taking a idiots vehicle off road with another vehicle if done correctly. Better would be just to pop a cap in his ass for some of driving that places Joe Citizen's family at risk.

Stunt department does little things, like put a plastic replica of a telephone pole hinged at the movie breakoff point, then shoot a very few frames cranking the camera well below 24 - fps and get the effect of the pole falling forward. This never happens, the pole falls backward over the roof - crushing the passenger canopy then spits 9.6 KV to ground / 12.2 KV between two phases at well over fifty amps. This produces ball lightning as far away as eight to fifteen feet. The ball lightning is capable of rolling across the top of the ground and can take off a human leg several seconds after first moments of discharge.

One of my team members has a leg missing. We were talking to a new supervisor, somewhat young, and laughed together. After a certain point, the pain does not get any worse. ( Except for renal failure )

Back OT, how about The Red Balloon? Its a classic, altho its a short.

Tell me about The Red Ballon, I just went to Target to check out a $299 computer. ( online only - I knew that before I went ) The store was Red almost wall to wall. Color prefs give clues to someone's personna. I gravitate towards several colors, I have a weakness that makes red an auto -trigger for rejection. Tell me what it is about the story.

[Marko Kencheto]

have question for a long time: whether the quantity can be automatically transformed in quality??? ... i have meaned in internal vs. external qualities: King Kong had more than external qualities???
[ April 30, 2008: Message edited by: Serg Poluchaevskiy ]

[Marko Kencheto]

funny film perhaps: Rhinestone (1984) with Sylvester Stallone and Dolly Parton

[Pat Farrell]

Originally posted by Nicholas Jordan:
Tell me about The Red Ballon,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048980/
Plot:
A red balloon, with a life of its own, follows a little boy around the streets of Paris

[marc weber]

Coincidentally, The Red Balloon was just released yesterday on DVD (for Region 1).

It's not one of my personal favorites, but it truly is a classic.

[marc weber]

Originally posted by marc weber:
Coincidentally, The Red Balloon was just released...

(I slay myself.)

[Nicholas Jordan]

Okay, Serg is our cryptographer in the script. I slay myself.: The oath of Alliance to the Reign Dahl - a fictional super power's leader. How do we work in the Red Balloon; A nephew, Pascal (Pascal Lamorisse), releases a red baloon from a flat near Bournemouth International Airport. It is a weather balloon and makes it's way to ...( Jason Bourne's Passport clerk in Germany? ) This is your chance for mercy, marc - come up with something.

I have to go get a soda right now.
[ April 30, 2008: Message edited by: Nicholas Jordan ]

[Doug Slattery]

How about Caveman with Ringo Starr, Shelly Long, etc...

Aloha,
Doug

-- Nothing is impossible if I'mPossible

[Gavin Tranter]

When you say the ring....I hhope you mean the Japanese version and not the american version!!!

I would have to add:
Akria
Chasing Amy
Shaun of the Dead
Top Gun
Kill Bill (first one)
Dune (well somebody has too)
Serenity (would have made a great 2nd season of firefly)
Spirited Away
Aliens (and only Aliens, non of the other ones)
Spaceballs

I would say however what is the 2nd and 3rd matric movies doing on the list? and the Da Vinci Code??? All four of Dan browns books have the same plot and Da Vinci code isint even the best of them, Angels and Demons is.

[Frank Silbermann]

Originally posted by Pat Farrell:


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048980/
Plot:
A red balloon, with a life of its own, follows a little boy around the streets of Paris

When I was in second grade I checked that story out of the school library several times. I didn't get the story at all; it seemed pointless to me. But it was a really nice balloon, and I really wanted one like that. I don't think I'd ever seen such a nice balloon.

[Kent Guthrie]

CLUE the movie. It's hard for me to bestow the title "best. movie. ever." on any movie, but this one comes close. Excellent performances all around. Call within the next ten minutes and we'll throw in your choice of three different endings absolutely free!
[ May 01, 2008: Message edited by: Kent Guthrie ]

[Nicholas Jordan]

Originally posted by Kent Guthrie:
(...snip...) Call within the next ten minutes and we'll throw in your choice of three different endings absolutely free!

Okay, I'm in within ten.

[marc weber]

Gavin, I'm with you on Kill Bill, Vol. 1. It got edged out of my top 25 list because I think it's too early to confer "classic" status, but I expect it will be.

(By the way, The Red Balloon is not a feature. It's 34 minutes.)

[Pat Farrell]

Originally posted by marc weber:
The Red Balloon is not a feature. It's 34 minutes.

That is sufficient to tell the story.

I loved Steven Spielberg's comment when folks asked about a sequel to ET. He said, "the story has been told" rather than just making an insiped sequel and raking in tons of money.

[marc weber]

Originally posted by Pat Farrell:
... That is sufficient to tell the story...

I agree. I love short films.

One of my favorite shorts is Vincent: The Junkie Chronicles, which was cut as a 9-minute preview of a work (supposedly) in progress. That was 8 years ago, and I don't think anything further ever came of it. But it stands on its own.

[Christophe Verré]

It reminds me of a great short-story film called Vincent, by Tim Burton. Vincent Price's narration is great.

[Nicholas Jordan]

Throughout history compassionate minds have pondered the dark and disturbing question:
What should be done to curb Meaningless Drivel?

Those behaviors undermine the foundations of civilization - different strokes for different folks - must be cast as markers of malcontents.

Today in Meaningless Drivel, we are not capable of being mean to them.

Other planets use other methods. The perfectionist rulers of the planet Zanti solved the problem of the Zanti misfits.

Source: My keyboard about ten minutes ago.

[Marko Kencheto]

the films of Jackie Chan wondered allways me, specially old films: he show there good skills, his frends too! In "Rush Hour" there are many interesting thoughts "why didn't you speak or answer me all this time? asked Carter; " i wanted only know what do you have in yourself or what is in your head"... answered Jackie Chan

[ May 08, 2008: Message edited by: Serg Poluchaevskiy ]
[ May 08, 2008: Message edited by: Serg Poluchaevskiy ]

[Marko Kencheto]

bugs or securites question in "our" life - "Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events". to my sorrow i haven't got any sufficient answers for my questions in java field in java rancho: in comparison with java sun forums - i got there very proficient answers for my questions - but it was several years ago: perhaps my questions were easier too... this answer conserns the question, that is below this post... so java sun forums had no such good "layout" as here, but they were very proficient and answers came sometimes very quickly! the topic abou films was not opened by be - so if it was provocation from the side of java rancho: at first to open the topic and than to ask "what are you doing here - it is proficient java forum, not forum about films or so..." can i ask you too on what behalf do you ask such questions ("why do i write here something")??? to tel the truth, sometimes if i can not find solution i must think about something else for short time: sometimes solution than come in "head"... direct "fight" brings nothing - sometimes only losted time...Nickolas thanks! JavaRanch is good and peoples here too!
in short: i wanted to get here professional help in some questions... but what i see: you talk to me personnaly allready at second time! i don't quite follow what attract you (Nickolas) in my messages or me... you haven't answer any my question here regarding java, but ask me about my "personal" way or story? will it really help you?
[ May 21, 2008: Message edited by: Serg Poluchaevskiy ]

[Nicholas Jordan]

Originally posted by Serg Poluchaevskiy:
bugs or security question in life?(...snip...)

Serg, glad to hear from you: { } I assume, therefore I err. ASSUME has a noted connotation in engineering - that should be the answer to your question as it is not dis-similar to the nature of the work you cite.

Tell us a little, a short overview, of what you do and how you came to be sufficiently interested in computer science to post at Java Ranch.

[fred rosenberger]

Originally posted by Gavin Tranter:

Aliens (and only Aliens, non of the other ones)

REALLY? The first Alien movie is one of the best suspense/horror movies ever made, I think. There is no comparison between the first and second. by that i mean they are totally unrelated, so any comparison is invalid. BOTH are in my all-time best movies.

[marc weber]

Originally posted by fred rosenberger:
REALLY? The first Alien movie is one of the best suspense/horror movies ever made, I think. There is no comparison between the first and second...

I'm with you, fred. The first is a classic horror film (with nice use of strobe effects). The second... Well, there was a lot of action.

[fred rosenberger]

Originally posted by marc weber:
The second... Well, there was a lot of action.

I liken the two movies to baseball and football. Both are fine for what they are. One has a lot of drama - the buildup of suspense to the bursting point, and then release. the other has a lot of action and wanton destruction, with some lulls in between.

neither category is better or worse than the other (again, my opinion). some people are simply more drawn to one than the other. And some games/movies are better examples of the genre than the other. The first two alien movies are fine examples of each type.

[marc weber]

Originally posted by fred rosenberger:
I liken the two movies to baseball and football...

Interesting. Alien was directed by Ridley Scott, and Aliens was directed by James Cameron. I liked both films for what they are, but they're very different.

The curious follow-up was Alien 3, which was directed by David Fincher. I have huge respect for him and what he's done since, but Alien 3 (his first feature) really got away from him.

[Marko Kencheto]

hi Marc, read your post about films: i was or am fan of some peoples - one of them Chuck Noris. There was old film with him "Octagon" - don't know whether their names (of heroes) were choosed there specially or by case... but some names have different meaning in other languages (one word in other language means other...): if i'm not wrong in this film there are two sides: strong hierarchy and simply "nature"...

[marc weber]

Serg, that makes sense, but I don't know much about Chuck Norris films. The only one I've seen is A Force of One (1979).

[Marko Kencheto]

Chuck Norris is good! dear Mark thanks for the film, somewhen i must watch it...

[Pat Farrell]

Just saw Indy 4, its not gonna be on this list, ever.

There is a ten minute sequence with two cars racing along a cliff, fighting to send the good guys over it. Duh.

Lucas has lost it.

Actually, this is
Amazing free ebook on lucas and Star Wars

Somehow, George got too much money and thinks he is an auteur.

Star Wars is a great horse opera in space. Each of the five sequels was less fun and less interesting.

[Marko Kencheto]

there are so many new films... because of that many old are forgot perhaps: Lui De Fines, Pier Rishar, Charli Chaplin, "Once upon Time in China"... middle way is allways good!?