herb slocomb wrote:
Arvind Mahendra wrote: ...I don't know what role the rich play in modern times in world hunger....
No one has produced any examples yet of a billionaire acting through a free market casuing global hunger.
...
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Darya Akbari wrote:95% of the billionaires live north of the equator. Where do you think live those 1 billion people whom the UN report say are hungry?
herb slocomb wrote:On the contrary, the more billionaires a country has as a result of a free market, the less hunger it has. So instead of looking for blame, focus on the solution of finding more ways to increase the number of billionaires in country.
Ulf Dittmer wrote:It seems you missed the second part of Herb's post which contained the outline of a solution:
herb slocomb wrote:On the contrary, the more billionaires a country has as a result of a free market, the less hunger it has. So instead of looking for blame, focus on the solution of finding more ways to increase the number of billionaires in country.
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Did you know it is estimated that 1.3 billion people could be fed with the amount of grain that America uses to feed livestock? And one acre of land can grow approximately 40,000 lbs of potatoes or 250 lbs of beef, and it takes 50,000 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of California beef, but only 25 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of wheat. Half of all water used in America is for livestock consumption.
Darya Akbari wrote:
I simply don't see this will happen at anytime, since if it had a chance to happen it would have already happened.
Darya Akbari wrote:
The fact is that the north will not let it happen, otherwise we wouldn't have the north/south division as we have it now.
Gregg Bolinger wrote:You can find all sorts of sources for this info searching google.
Did you know it is estimated that 1.3 billion people could be fed with the amount of grain that America uses to feed livestock? And one acre of land can grow approximately 40,000 lbs of potatoes or 250 lbs of beef, and it takes 50,000 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of California beef, but only 25 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of wheat. Half of all water used in America is for livestock consumption.
herb slocomb wrote:
Arvind Mahendra wrote: ...I don't know what role the rich play in modern times in world hunger....
No one has produced any examples yet of a billionaire acting through a free market casuing global hunger.
On the contrary, the more billionaires a country has as a result of a free market, the less hunger it has.
So instead of looking for blame, focus on the solution of finding more ways to increase the number of billionaires in country.
herb slocomb wrote:
On the contrary, the more billionaires a country has as a result of a free market, the less hunger it has.
So instead of looking for blame, focus on the solution of finding more ways to increase the number of billionaires in country.
I want to be like marc
Arvind Mahendra wrote:
"... food insecurity and the necessity of food stamps being experienced by at least 4 in 10 Americans between the ages of 20 and 65. That's 50% of Americans! "
Arvind Mahendra wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:
No one has produced any examples yet of a billionaire acting through a free market casuing global hunger.
On the contrary, the more billionaires a country has as a result of a free market, the less hunger it has.
...
Here's an example. A billionaire who runs a power company, seeing an increase in demand for his product decides to dam a river that acts as a life line for millions of acres of farmland downstream. Look at what this does - you displace millions of people from their home, food production is lessened and the price of produce has now gone up. ...
Arvind Mahendra wrote:
herb slocomb wrote: .
...On the contrary, the more billionaires a country has as a result of a free market, the less hunger it has.. .
Whats the point of reporting gossip as fact when it wouldn't take more than 5 mins to google?
We would not have this high rate of starvation in Zimbabwe had the white colonists never arrived.Darya Akbari wrote:
Zimbabwe is a good example. Beside the fact that Mugabe is responsible for the misery there now, but what about the responsibility of the white farmers who had those huge farms?
Frank Silbermann wrote:Then these white settlers came and cleared farms, grew lucrative crops, and hired many Africans to work for them.
Frank Silbermann wrote:We've seen similar famines in other countries when farms were confiscated from the people who knew how to farm -- in the Soviet Union during the 1930s, in China during the 1950s and '60s, and probably many other places. (In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge didn't wait for starvation to result from their policies.)
herb slocomb wrote:countries with most billionaires had on avergage (per country) the lowest rates of hunger. The overall obvious point is that USA and Western Europe had most billionaires (compare with earlier posted map) and lowest rates of hunger:
herb slocomb wrote:So, the billionaires in the North conspire to prevent free markets from emerging in the South so as to prevent billionaire creation in the South ...
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herb slocomb wrote:You still have not given a real example of a billionaire causing world hunger.
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Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:You still have not given a real example of a billionaire causing world hunger.
In principle anyone of them who speculates on the world food market (especially after the real estate crashes) is an example.
herb slocomb wrote:You still have not given a real example of a billionaire causing world hunger.
Even if Ayn Rand's philosophy is true, it's still dangerous to teach; scoundrels such as the head of Enron have used her "greed is good" principle to justify actions that violate a greedy person's _long_ term self-interest. That's why I favor encouraging people to attend a decent church denomination -- not one of those denominations that promote autocracy or war against unbelievers, but one that teaches the Protestant Work Ethic or its equivalent.herb slocomb wrote:
Instead of blaming these guys, and thousands like them through history, we should be on our knees in gratitude for the blessings they have bestowed on us.
"Atlas Shrugged" movie should be out in 2011 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480239/
Frank Silbermann wrote:
Even if Ayn Rand's philosophy is true, it's still dangerous to teach; scoundrels such as the head of Enron have used her "greed is good" principle to justify actions that violate a greedy person's _long_ term self-interest. That's why I favor encouraging people to attend a decent church denomination -- not one of those denominations that promote autocracy or war against unbelievers, but one that teaches the Protestant Work Ethic or its equivalent.herb slocomb wrote:
Instead of blaming these guys, and thousands like them through history, we should be on our knees in gratitude for the blessings they have bestowed on us.
"Atlas Shrugged" movie should be out in 2011 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480239/
Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Bert Bates wrote:
The math's not hard, but imagine looking at the cup in 23 hours... would it be intuitive at that point to imagine that in 1 hour the cup would be full?
herb slocomb wrote:
Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:You still have not given a real example of a billionaire causing world hunger.
In principle anyone of them who speculates on the world food market (especially after the real estate crashes) is an example.
Precisely wrong. "Futures" purchases of food commodities are the main process whereby farmers can forecast demand, reduce risk, afford to make investments to increase their productivity, and wisely plan their planting schedules in advance.
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Frank Silbermann wrote:Frank Silbermann: Then these white settlers came and cleared farms, grew lucrative crops, and hired many Africans to work for them.
Darya Akbari: We had that already during slavery. And on this stock of land a lot of those white settlers got rich.
Yes, and the Africans ate and multiplied and didn't starve (until Mugabe stopped it). What's your point?
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Frank Silbermann wrote:Enron have used her "greed is good" principle to justify actions that violate a greedy person's _long_ term self-interest. That's why I favor encouraging people to attend a decent church denomination -- not one of those denominations that promote autocracy or war against unbelievers, but one that teaches the Protestant Work Ethic or its equivalent.
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Yes, but Mugabe ended it. Mugabe has the power to set whatever policy for Zimbabwe that he pleases. He can let white farmers grow crops and employ Africans in Zimbabwe (which you call modern slavery), or not. When he removes from white Zimbabweans the authority to run the farms, he simultaneously removes from them the responsibility for producing food, exportables and paychecks. If he can teach black Zimbabweans to do the job themselves, no one will stop him.Darya Akbari wrote:
Frank Silbermann wrote:Frank Silbermann: Then these white settlers came and cleared farms, grew lucrative crops, and hired many Africans to work for them.
Darya Akbari: We had that already during slavery. And on this stock of land a lot of those white settlers got rich.
Yes, and the Africans ate and multiplied and didn't starve (until Mugabe stopped it). What's your point?
My point is that what you see as freedom for the Africans, I call modern form of slavery.
Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:
Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:You still have not given a real example of a billionaire causing world hunger.
In principle anyone of them who speculates on the world food market (especially after the real estate crashes) is an example.
Precisely wrong. "Futures" purchases of food commodities are the main process whereby farmers can forecast demand, reduce risk, afford to make investments to increase their productivity, and wisely plan their planting schedules in advance.
I should have emphasized the word speculates. The nature of speculation or a speculator is not of the kind of making plans. Right the opposite, any move is unplanned. Look the finance crisis we are in today. The real estate sector has crashed and new sectors like the food sector are being found to move huge amounts of money there. Like a gambler a speculator only has one thing in mind: make money
Darya Akbari wrote:
Frank Silbermann wrote:Enron have used her "greed is good" principle to justify actions that violate a greedy person's _long_ term self-interest. That's why I favor encouraging people to attend a decent church denomination -- not one of those denominations that promote autocracy or war against unbelievers, but one that teaches the Protestant Work Ethic or its equivalent.
This "greed is good"principle is really sick. I don't know who brought that one up to excuse his sick mind set about how the world has to function. But you don't need to be on the religious path to understand that this principle is sick.
herb slocomb wrote:Greed, via free markets and the application of technology, has done more to advance living standards for everyone throughout history than any charity or religion ... In the real world, "greed is good" when properly channeled in society.
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herb slocomb wrote:There is misunderstanding about how the the markets work; especially in regards to food commodities.
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Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:Greed, via free markets and the application of technology, has done more to advance living standards for everyone throughout history than any charity or religion ... In the real world, "greed is good" when properly channeled in society.
Greed is the reason of all evil. What do you mean with when properly channeled. Your when will never happen as you can see by 1 billion starving people. In the real world the speculators don't care about your when, they only follow their greed for money. Then what difference does it make for dying child whether the greed is the direct or indirect cause why it is dying now.
Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:There is misunderstanding about how the the markets work; especially in regards to food commodities.
So far the north has enslaved the south in that they use the south as farming ground dictate their prices, so much that not enough remains for the south. That in addition with the subvention policy of the north even force the south to import food again from the north. On one hand the south has to provide its farming ground to pay its debts to the north. Now where does the debts come from?
herb slocomb wrote:Its greed that raises living standards, then parents can feed their children.
herb slocomb wrote:In a free market, prices are not dictated.
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Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:Its greed that raises living standards, then parents can feed their children.
That's obviously not the case for the parents in the south.
herb slocomb wrote:In a free market, prices are not dictated.
For the south they are dictated, since there we don't have a free market.
herb slocomb wrote:Billionaires and wannabe billionaires want free markets.
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Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:Billionaires and wannabe billionaires want free markets.
The only thing they want is money.
I agree -- the rich western countries should never have lent money to poor countries. Their corrupt leaders keep it for themselves and leave their countrymen holding the debt. We should not do this anymore.Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:There is misunderstanding about how the the markets work; especially in regards to food commodities.
So far the north has enslaved the south in that they use the south as farming ground dictate their prices, so much that not enough remains for the south. That in addition with the subvention policy of the north even force the south to import food again from the north. On one hand the south has to provide its farming ground to pay its debts to the north. Now where does the debts come from?
Frank Silbermann wrote:
I agree -- the rich western countries should never have lent money to poor countries. Their corrupt leaders keep it for themselves and leave their countrymen holding the debt. We should not do this anymore.Darya Akbari wrote:
herb slocomb wrote:There is misunderstanding about how the the markets work; especially in regards to food commodities.
So far the north has enslaved the south in that they use the south as farming ground dictate their prices, so much that not enough remains for the south. That in addition with the subvention policy of the north even force the south to import food again from the north. On one hand the south has to provide its farming ground to pay its debts to the north. Now where does the debts come from?
Darya Akbari wrote:So far the north has enslaved the south in that they use the south as farming ground dictate their prices, so much that not enough remains for the south.
Darya Akbari wrote:
Greed is the reason of all evil.
Ulf Dittmer wrote:
Darya Akbari wrote:So far the north has enslaved the south in that they use the south as farming ground dictate their prices, so much that not enough remains for the south.
Careful there. You seem to use "the north" and "the billionaires" as a convenient proxy..
Ulf Dittmer wrote:You seem to use "the north" and "the billionaires" as a convenient proxy for all kinds of things.
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