Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:.... and most programs are written in C. People hate on Java because of the JVM
I completely reject your first assertion. Last time I checked, most programs were still written in Fortran, because it has a 30 year head start over even C.
People who "hate on" java because of the JVM are, at best, uninformed. The JVM is the best thing about Java, and will long out live Java the language. The JVM lets folks write clear, simple code that performs as well as the best, hand optimized C -- which can't be read or understood by anyone because its so optimized.
Jay Orsaw wrote:Okay, so you're saying right now that most programs are written in Fortran? I'd actually be interested to see what the truth is, because I figured C++ would be what most applications right now are in(and more and more moving to Java).
Jay Orsaw wrote:Yes, there is tons of misinformation out there, a kid in my class said that Java sucks because there are no "pointers." I had to laugh because seriously pointers? ....Java does all that automatically(that's what I heard anyway).
Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:Okay, so you're saying right now that most programs are written in Fortran? I'd actually be interested to see what the truth is, because I figured C++ would be what most applications right now are in(and more and more moving to Java).
That was the statistic last time I checked ( it was about 4 years ago). Meaning "most programs still being run" in an active langauge. The engineers and scientists use a ton of Fortran.
The problem is that Java and C and many other modern languages don't have Complex data types, and that is what makes engineering work.
All of electrical engineering uses complex data. And all of the fancy stuff in other fields
Jay Orsaw wrote:Yes, there is tons of misinformation out there, a kid in my class said that Java sucks because there are no "pointers." I had to laugh because seriously pointers? ....Java does all that automatically(that's what I heard anyway).
Pointers are cool, So is juggling a loaded machine gun that has been covered in grease. Java has no pointers because References do much of the same things without the danger. Every variable for a Java object is a reference. (not so the legacy int, float, etc.).
Every technology gets fanboi love and becomes religious.
Jay Orsaw wrote: Always gotta laugh at those who have no idea what they are talking about, especially with no experience/reason to back it up.
john price wrote:I'm talking about major corporations like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Twitter etc. I do know that Twitters servers are partly/all Java servers. I would like to see client examples, not server examples...
"Leadership is nature's way of removing morons from the productive flow" - Dogbert
Articles by Winston can be found here
Wendy Gibbons wrote:
Tim McGuire wrote:At my workplace, we find that intermediate level java programmers are hard to find at an affordable price in spite of the economy. We can't seem to hire one to save our lives! ... When I think "expert", I think, "re-engineer hibernate to make it more efficient" .
to bastardize my favourite book
well I am surprised at your knowing so many experts, not that you know so few.
Steve Stevenson wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't now, 2012, actually the best time to get into Java?
Pat Farrell wrote:... a developer can write an "app" and make huge amounts of money...
No more Blub for me, thank you, Vicar.
chris webster wrote:I wonder how many people are actually making a lot of money out of writing Android/Java apps? If you come up with a smart and useful app that nobody else has done already, and keep working to maintain/upgrade it, then I can see you might make a decent secondary income. But "huge amounts of money"?
Pat Farrell wrote:The money is on the IOS side. There are iPhone developers making huge amounts of money. There is a camera app, I think Camera+, by Lisa Bettany, that has sold close to a million copies. At $10 a copy, I call that huge amounts of money.
No more Blub for me, thank you, Vicar.
Pat Farrell wrote:
chris webster wrote:I wonder how many people are actually making a lot of money out of writing Android/Java apps? If you come up with a smart and useful app that nobody else has done already, and keep working to maintain/upgrade it, then I can see you might make a decent secondary income. But "huge amounts of money"?
I have no hard figures, but my guess is that very few make a ton of money on Android. The money is on the IOS side. There are iPhone developers making huge amounts of money. There is a camera app, I think Camera+, by Lisa Bettany, that has sold close to a million copies. At $10 a copy, I call that huge amounts of money.
Jay Orsaw wrote:More apps are created via android
Jay Orsaw wrote: and personally I wouldn't want to work with Apple since they want 100 a year, plus 30%, and if you don't pay it they will wipe out all of your apps. Google wants a 1 time fee of like 25$ and 25-30%.
Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:More apps are created via android
This may be true, I don't know. I do know that the serious money is on the IOS side.
Jay Orsaw wrote: and personally I wouldn't want to work with Apple since they want 100 a year, plus 30%, and if you don't pay it they will wipe out all of your apps. Google wants a 1 time fee of like 25$ and 25-30%.
$100 is nothing for a professional effort. It just keeps the children out.
The 30% tax that apple take feels high to me, but lots of successful app developers are fine with their remaining 70%.
Jay Orsaw wrote:Serious money is on both sides, when we can see the percentages of users buying android phones vs iphones, and see the stats on the apps themselves we can see a better picture. 100$ isn't a lot if you have multiple apps and are able to make a lot off of it, but if you don't want to do iphone apps then, or feel Android is the better place to be then you wont pay it. It's good to be on both though. It all depneds how successful your app is.
Tim McGuire wrote:I use java based desktop applications such as IntelliJ Idea and DBVisualizer every day and they are very robust.
Eduardo Moranchel wrote:The new Tiobe index for this year is out.
Not to help the argument, but I wonder why java went down from being the king.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Also noteworthy: Java has been in top for most of the years competing with c with clear advantage.
People use it, and will probably keep using it, but anyway.
What are your thoughts on this?
spar mc wrote:We often hear that language X saw failures in this old language Y over the years and corrected them. Long ago, Java was replacing C/C++, now Ceylon/Scala are being proposed as Java alternative. This cycle never ends. And its very good that this cycle goes on, it will bring us more languages. There is no need to cling to a technology or be religious about it.
Software systems sell not because they are in a language with pointers, they sell because they work well in real world.
As far as Java is concerned, JVM has been the real winner over all this time. It is the key platform and concept of abstraction that has provided so much freedom to developers. And there is plenty room for Java to adapt as long as the JVM concept holds good in the market. Recent releases of Java do point in this direction. May be there is a new Java in the making ;) .
john price wrote:
Bear Bibeault wrote:
john price wrote: Java seems like a technology no one wants to use
You need to get out more.
All my coding friends do not use Java. Could you tell me some main technologies that use Java? I'm not asking for the basic ones on Java.com or anything. I'm talking about major corporations like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Twitter etc. I do know that Twitters servers are partly/all Java servers. I would like to see client examples, not server examples. Again, I'm not trying to bag on Java. I love Java, but there are a few things that I don't like (as no language is perfect) and people seem to not like it all that much - even users... Most users complain about it's slowness, which will be improved as years go by...
John Price
joe wrote:
I love Java, but there are a few things that I don't like (as no language is perfect) and people seem to not like it all that much - even users
Gene Kelley
Web Developer
john price wrote:
Bear Bibeault wrote:
john price wrote: Java seems like a technology no one wants to use
You need to get out more.
All my coding friends do not use Java. Could you tell me some main technologies that use Java? I'm not asking for the basic ones on Java.com or anything. I'm talking about major corporations like Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Twitter etc.
John Price
R. Grimes wrote:..this is a good reason why a company's development stack should NEVER be left to the decision making of anyone under the age of 35..
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
john price wrote:
Java seems like a technology no one wants to use as many people make fun of it constantly. I do hear some of their complaints.
John Price
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