Country or State??

[Mehul Sanghvi]

Hi,

I am confused about status of States within UK..

Why do England/Scotland/Wales/NIreland call themselves as countries and represent their states seperately in international events like football/miss world etc..?

Dont they collectively form UK? And shouldnt there be just one team/person representing the whole of UK?

Can anyone throw any light on this matter?

[Matt Fielder]

/me prays that no angry IRA members read this...

[Helen Thomas]

This question was answered here quite completely, IMHO.

I can sense bartender fingers hovering over Delete Buttons as we speak...
[ December 06, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Mehul Sanghvi:
I am confused about status of States within UK..

Like Helen said, I think the political aspect is fully covered in the thread she quoted.

Why do England/Scotland/Wales/NIreland call themselves as countries and represent their states seperately in international events like football/miss world etc..

It depends upon the sport. In things like athletics and rugby league then the country enters as a whole, but in others such as rugby union and football we enter as separate nations. I can't say why for the other sports, but the reason that we enter as separate countries in football competitions is because the UK has separate Football Associations - one for each nation. The English FA was the first one formed in the world (and therefore pretty much formalised the rules) back in 1863 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Football_Association ). Later on the different parts of the UK made their own FAs and other countries around the world made theirs as well. Within domestic competitions in the UK each of the nations within the UK have their own league systems i.e. there is a league champion in Scotland, another in England etc.

Its highly unlikely that this will change in the near future. The international teams from each nation in the UK are among the oldest in the world - the first ever international football match was between England and Scotland, so there's a lot of history. Over the years the fans of the various nations have built up a friendly rivalry with each other and would certainly prefer not to join up to make one team. A joint team would also probably not have as much support - the average Briton would refer to themselves as "English", "Scottish" etc if you asked them their nationality, rather then saying "British". We feel a lot more patriotic towards our nation than towards our country. Besides, we rather enjoy the rivalry between each other, and sporting events between the various nations in the UK (such as the rugby league Six Nations) are very popular - we would miss them if we had a joint team!

An other reason why we wouldn't have a joint football team is that the squad would probably be 99% English at the moment and the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish would not like that at all
[ December 07, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]

[Mehul Sanghvi]

Hey,

Thanks guys..!!

That was informative...

Actually a collegue of mine and myself had got into this discussion and wanted some more views...

It was great knowing all this!

Mehul

[Iain Ross]

Here's a bit of fuel for the fire!

I have read through the previously pointed out thread and in one post it states that:

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor. (Latin, Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.)

Now as a Scot there is one point that really rankles here:
Elizabeth II - How can this be as there has never been an Elizabeth I? Ok there has been Elizabeth I of ENGLAND but this the UK (ie post 1707) we are supposed to be talking about!! See should either call herself Elizabeth I & II (as in James I and VI) or Elizabeth I of the United Kingdom of Great Britain etc..

Having said that I peronally think we should get rid of them anyway. This is the 21st century and I think I should have the right to choose the head of state and not have somebody selected for me just because of some claim of birthright. These poeple and their multitude of hangers on should be forced to go and earn their way in the world instead of living of the fat of the land. Anyway enough of the republican rant!

Cheers,
Iain

[Marcus Green]

The UK is a political entity (United Kingdon of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Scotland, England,Wales and Northern Ireland are generally referred to as "nations" rather than states. It's perfectly reasonable to call a person from Scotland British, but calling a Scottish person English can cause irritation. Because England is the largest population and economy there is occasionally a tendancy to refer to the whole UK as England. This is incorrect, and understandably irritating to many people.

As a by product of devolution and the formation of the Scottish and Welsh assembly there is now something very slightly more like the idea of a political state in those regions but it does not map to the idea of state as understood in the United States of America.

[ December 08, 2004: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]
[ December 08, 2004: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]

[Michael Ernest]

Originally posted by Marcus Green:
Because England is the largest population and economy there is occasionally a tendancy to refer to the whole UK as England. This is incorrect, and understandably irritating to many people.

In a similar sense, the US refers to itself as America and its citizens as Americans. Yet study after study shows evidence that other countries might in fact exist on the North American continent. There are even occasional urban myths about a "Central" and "South" America, but I'm this is probably just a lot of Tolkien fans having fun with their more gullible stoner friends.

[Marcus Green]

It is always a pleasure to refer to Candadians as Americans, and the explain you were simply referring to the continent :8

[Joe King]

I sometimes wonder if people from countries like Germany, Brazil and Mexico get annoyed when the USA is referred to as "The States" as if other countries don't have them.

So people get annoyed about it being called "America" and "States"...hmmm... pretty poor choice of name for the country really. Perhaps it should be renamed or something. This was one possible solution that I saw a Canadian put forward, based upon the election results : http://yglesias.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/unknown.jpg