Postman Pat can't afford a flat

[Gerald Davis]

Postman Pat, Postman Pat,Postman Pat and can't afford a flat, early in the morning, Just as day is dawning, Pat feels he's a really unhappy man!!!

Any comments

[Ernest Friedman-Hill]

Originally posted by Gerald Davis:

Any comments

Yes. Those little pill organizers, with one labelled compartment for each day of the week, can really help.

[Peter Rooke]

So what are London house (or flat) prices these days? Been more than two years since I left the south.

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:


Yes. Those little pill organizers, with one labelled compartment for each day of the week, can really help.

Pill organizers, labelled compartment for each day of the week? I don't understand? How could that help a postman get onto the property ladder.

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Peter Rooke:
So what are London house (or flat) prices these days? Been more than two years since I left the south.

In the uk the average cost of a housing is �187,971 thats around $362,000 in us dollars
Detached: �284,145
Semi-detached: �170,816
Terraced: �143,771
Flat: �172,196


London average is �287,470
Detached: �570,342
Semi-detached: �327,576
Terraced: �301,585
Flat: �241,347

I assume a postman doesn't earn more then a traffic warden in london, thats around 18k a year.

[Peter Rooke]

Ouch! Too much, too much!

I don't understand why you are considering buying at this moment in time: FT- Your home.

Cheer up it could be worst; you could have a mortgage for half million pounds.

I've been thinking of moving aboard - if only it was eaiser [for us English] to get into America.

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Peter Rooke:
Ouch! Too much, too much!

I don't understand why you are considering buying at this moment in time: FT- Your home.

Cheer up it could be worst; you could have a mortgage for half million pounds.

I've been thinking of moving aboard - if only it was eaiser [for us English] to get into America.

Hay, I always like the idea of being a gypsy. Now its time to find out what its like.

[Helen Thomas]

Postman Pat finds a Miss Patty,house-buying priority pushes to the fore and before you know it Postman Pat is a home-owner.

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Postman Pat finds a Miss Patty,house-buying priority pushes to the fore and before you know it Postman Pat is a home-owner.

I don't understand what you mean dude

[Ernest Friedman-Hill]

Originally posted by Gerald Davis:


I don't understand what you mean dude

Hmm, if you think Helen is a dude, then it's not surprising that you don't understand her post!

[Nick George]

maybe "mean dude" is a verb, and he's wondering what Helen mean dudes.

[Mikalai Zaikin]

Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:


Hmm, if you think Helen is a dude, then it's not surprising that you don't understand her post!

LOL !

[John Smith]

Nick George: maybe "mean dude" is a verb, and he's wondering what Helen mean dudes.

It could also be that some punctuation is missing: "I don't understand, what are you, a mean dude?"

[Helen Thomas]

I meant married folk and couples staying together don't appear to find it difficult to get on the property ladder.

[Helen Thomas]

Originally posted by John Smith:
Nick George: maybe "mean dude" is a verb, and he's wondering what Helen mean dudes.

It could also be that some punctuation is missing: "I don't understand, what are you, a mean dude?"

I don't understand. what? you mean dude!

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
I meant married folk and couples staying together don't appear to find it difficult to get on the property ladder.

Depends upon how desperate a couple is to get on the property ladder. Traditionally people would put down about 10% of the value of a property when buying it, and get a 90% mortgage. The problem in London is that the 10% is largely unaffordable to a lot of couples starting out. In the part of London I live in a one/two bedroom flat would be about �200,000, so myself and my girlfriend would need to save up �20,000. At the moment I think that would probably take us between 2 and 5 years to save up. The only other alternative is a mortgage that is a higher percentage, but then this would have a huge interest rate. The frustrating thing is that while we are struggling to save up enough money so that we aren't paying stupid amounts of interest, we are also paying very large amounts in rent. We have a two-bed flat 6.5 miles from central London, in a medium-low income area. You would have thought that this would be reasonably cheap, but its actually �750 a month, and that's good for the area.

We're basically left with the choice of:

* Spending years saving up money and paying out lots of rent while doing so
* Getting a very nasty mortgage
* Moving out of London and having very long stressful commutes into work.


[ December 13, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Gerald Davis:
Postman Pat, Postman Pat,Postman Pat and can't afford a flat, early in the morning, Just as day is dawning, Pat feels he's a really unhappy man!!!

Any comments

Yes, my local Postman Pat is more like Postman Pathetic at the moment. In the last week we've received several letters that despite being posted First Class (should take a day) took almost a week to arrive. At least they did arrive - the postman frequently delivers to the wrong address.

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by Joe King:


At least they did arrive - the postman frequently delivers to the wrong address.

Mine too. I think its to make us more sociable - it gives us an excuse to introduce ourselves to our neighbours.

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill :
maybe "mean dude" is a verb, and he's wondering what Helen mean dudes.

Originally posted by Nick George:
Hmm, if you think Helen is a dude, then it's not surprising that you don't understand her post! dudes.

'Dude' meaning that I didn't bother to look at her name to find out if she's a lass, wow you guys are too deep man!

[Gail Schlentz]

Originally posted by Peter Rooke:

...I've been thinking of moving aboard ...

...so what are prices for buying homes on ships nowadays?

[Helen Thomas]

To Gerald Davis:

You attributed the quotes to the wrong people.

One mean lass
[ December 13, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
I meant married folk and couples staying together don't appear to find it difficult to get on the property ladder.

Me be married? to give up a depressing lifestyle as a single to be happily married with kids. Why on earth didn't I think of this before

[Angela Poynton]

I bought a 2 bedroomed house in South West London with my friend 3 years ago for �125k. I'm getting it valued after Xmas, I hope it's gone up as much as you're suggesting

[Mapraputa Is]

Peter Rooke: ...I've been thinking of moving aboard ...
Elaine ...so what are prices for buying homes on ships nowadays?

A guide to financing a 'floating home'

[Alan Wanwierd]

I moved out of the SE corner of England back in '98 and sold a tiny 1 bedroom apartment in Newbury (about 2 hrs West of London). I moved to Brisbane(Qld, Australia) and for the same money, purchased a 4 bedroom house with pool, ducted air-con, 10km from City centre in a leafy suburb next to protected state forest bushland.

Since then the value of the house has risen massively - but still not enough that I could consider (or could afford) moving back to the UK. I now have lots of friends who are leaving UK for Canada, US, Australia, mainland Europe etc etc -...

Of the 8 people I shared a house with in my final uni year, only 2 still live in the UK!!! Property prices may not be the only factor influencing peoples decisions to leave the UK, but I'm sure its a big factor in making sure they cant come back once they leave!

Why does anyone live in London?

[Marc Peabody]

Postman Pat, Postman Pat,Postman Pat and can't afford a flat, early in the morning, Just as day is dawning, Pat feels he's a really unhappy man!!!

On first read, I pictured Postman Pat being late for work and getting a flat tire. He can't afford the extra time to fix it because being late could get him fired.

[Helen Thomas]

People live in Glasgow and commute to London. Not daily. Some companies used to have arrangements where the team would work a 3-4 day week (12/9 hours each day) and have the rest of the week off to be with family.

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Adrian Wallace:
Why does anyone live in London?

Its smelly, crowded, expensive, unfriendly, ugly in parts and has high crime... but I love it! I love to live in London despite these things.

London may have some incredibly ugly buildings (whoever designed the Hayward Gallery deserves to be publicly flogged), but also some incredibly beautiful ones. Despite its bad reputation for architecture, there is a great deal of incredible old buildings in London that I love to see and look around, and together with the parks, monuments and parts of the river side, there's nothing I like better then to be wondering around the city.

There's also the number of things to do - there are very few cities in Europe that can compete in the variety of shops, theatres and restaurants.... and what can beat the wonder that is Charing Cross Road - full of cafes and book shops?

Aside from all of those, what I like best about London is the atmosphere - there's no where else I've been that celebrates such a wide variety of cultures, drawing the best (as well as bad of course) from all of them (I've heard that New York is similar in this aspect). After growing up in a town where everyone is the same, the variety here is great.

I suppose it depends upon what you are looking for. London may not be a great place if you are looking for a large house to live in, or the peace of the countryside, or to raise a family in either... but its great for things like culture, nights out, exploring new places etc. I'm sure I'll grow to dislike it in time (many do), but at the moment I thoroughly enjoy living in London. There are certainly other great cities - recently I've been to Dublin, Paris and Stockholm and loved them all... but none of them had the X factor that London has.

[Angela Poynton]

Well after 5 years I've had enough.
I feel I've given London my best shot and we just don't fit together.

So next year I'm moving to Manchester.
All the perks of London without the attitude.

[John Dunn]

Isn't that where they make Boddingtons?

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by John Dunn:
Isn't that where they make Boddingtons?

I believe it is
Sadly I'm allergic to Beer.

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Sadly I'm allergic to Beer.

What?! How do you cope? Allergic to beer... what a horrifying thought... I'm going to have nightmares now.



Is it all beers, or just a sub group e.g. largers, ales etc?

[Helen Thomas]

I read an article about someone who was forced to sell up his little bedsit in Central London and had to endure life in Manchester in a five bedroom house close to open air countryside where the people are horridly friendly and caring and unfortunately found they had money left over for a place in france ,the children becoming bi-lingual, dreadfully commutable within hours , and once again surrounded by dastardly friendly,open minded foreigners. I couldn't find it in my heart to be sorry for him. Undeserving person!

[Ashok Mash]

I would imagine with all new technologies and better broadband access etc employers will become more flexible and would appreciate work-from-home, but as far as I can see, its just not happening!

Situation isn�t any better here in Dublin either � it takes me an hour to drive 12 miles every morning and only other option is public bus, which will take half an hour more! An hour away from the city and a two-bedroom duplex or townhouse is upwards of 240K euros, which is �170K or $320K where as average salary is as low as 25K euros!

There was a steady flow of Irish immigrants returning to the country last year. I am not sure if its going up or down, but a lot of retired or elderly are moving out of the country, mostly to sunny south of Europe!

[Ben Wood]

The UK is getting ridiculous in terms of cost of living, both house prices and other things like fuel now around the 80p/litre mark, plus high levels of congestion and crime. The only reason I still live here is because of the beer. It is a constant battle for me...beer vs all other factors. So far, beer still has the edge; if I moved to the continent for example I would have to drink watery lager out of funny shaped glasses for the rest of my days, I'm not sure it's worth it

..oh, and it's not just Postman Pat who can't afford a flat. Programmer Ben can't either , plus Pat doesn't have all those student debts hanging around the lucky so and so... We should all re-train as builders, plumbers, joiners and electricians. Even better, maybe move into plastering.

[Peter Rooke]

I read an article comparing living standards around the world; the UK got a low mark. Most of the other European countries are ahead of us. I don’t think any Brits would disagree with this.

House prices must fall [In my uneducated option], they have being propped up for too long – the big question is will the market crash or just fall gradually. Up here in the North East [of England] prices have just kept rising, the major difference is that we just do not have [unlike London] the industry to give employees large salaries. We just got lots of tax funded underemployment.


[ December 20, 2004: Message edited by: Peter Rooke ]
[ December 20, 2004: Message edited by: Peter Rooke ]

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Peter Rooke:
I read an article comparing living standards around the world; the UK got a low mark. Most of the other European countries are ahead of us. I don’t think any Brits would disagree with this.

House prices must fall [In my uneducated option], they have being propped up for too long – the big question is will the market crash or just fall gradually. Up here in the North East [of England] prices have just kept rising, the major difference is that we just do not have [unlike London] the industry to give employees large salaries. We just got lots of tax funded underemployment.


[ December 20, 2004: Message edited by: Peter Rooke ]

[ December 20, 2004: Message edited by: Peter Rooke ]

I have been looking at similar figures and London,Europes greatest city, is not as great as I expected. It looks like sweeden, the socialist country, has many cities ranking high. I was also amazed that many American states rank lower then London including the might NY.
I guess it is time for me to rethink about what capitalism and socialism means to me.

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by Joe King:


What?! How do you cope? Allergic to beer... what a horrifying thought... I'm going to have nightmares now.



Is it all beers, or just a sub group e.g. largers, ales etc?

Well, I've never had it formally clarified but I know Lager does not agree with me, just a few sips makes me quite ill. It never used to, I used to be able to drink quite a few pints, but a couple of years ago it just suddenly started reacting badly.
I've never liked Bitter or Ale.

I should go for a proper allergy test but keep forgetting.

[Don Kiddick]

I don't think the problem is that bad. I bought a house in London 3 years ago with a 0% deposit mortgage. Mortgage was still less than my rent. I've spent the last 3 years paying of my mortgage rather than someone elses.

Manchester is really not all that. The people are in no way more friendly, it rains a million and is a dark city. That's why the houses are cheaper...

[Peter Rooke]

Houses are cheaper in the north [of England] simply because salaries are less up here. Yes I bet you are mostly paying off the interest on your mortgage; and as inflation is low - then your mortgage will not be reduced that much over time. Any guesses on the direction of interest rates? Hopefully they will stay the same. Three years ago was a good time to buy, especially in London. Its just a pain for us that are not on the property ladder (thats why we wine on and on!).

Yes you are right, it always rains over the west side of the country,
its also a lot colder up here. North West [England] has the best football teams as well - shame they have done it with Scotish and North East players.

Any big city is generally unfriendly. I did find people in the south were less social, than in my native north east. Maybe they did not understand my geordie accent.