Living at home with their mother.

[Gerald Davis]

Do you think it�s wrong if you someone is still living with there parents over after 30. Should they make effort to leave even if the rental is very expensive and could cut their spend power in half?
[ January 17, 2005: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Frank Silbermann]

Unmarried people setting up independent households from their parents is an economic luxury that people in western countries after WWII could afford, but what with globalization and all that, might not long continue to be affordable. The motivation for it is that living at home with the parents is probably very awkward for a child who has an active sex life.

It is uncool for a man in his 30s not to have an active sex life (either with a regular partner or with lots of swingin' chicks). However, if he does not have an active sex life, I would consider it highly wasteful (and I consider waste immoral) to move into one's own place just to avoid the stigma. I believe in computer god Fred Brooks' personal motto: "To Be, Rather than to Seem."

It's equally wasteful for a single man in his 30s to live with his parents just so he can afford lots of toys and restaurants, etc. He should take advantage of the opportunity to save money, invest, and build an estate. (Growing financial resources may eventually help him win a mate.)
[ January 13, 2005: Message edited by: Frank Silbermann ]

[Steven Bell]

Originally posted by Frank Silbermann:
Unmarried people setting up independent households from their parents is an economic luxury that people in western countries after WWII could afford, but what with globalization and all that, might not long continue to be affordable.
[ January 13, 2005: Message edited by: Frank Silbermann ]

I don't know about that. US home ownership is at an all time high in terms of population percentages.

While I do agree that it is 'uncool' for a 30 year old to still be living with his parents, I would also suggest that, in general, a person living on his/her own is probably going to be more responsible.

[Joe King]

I know of several people in their mid-late 20s who still live at home with their parents, and probably still will be when they hit their 30th birthday. For them the reason is purely financial - not the "I want more geeky toys" financial reason, but the "I can't afford to move" reason.

In much of SE England a lot of young people find it very hard to afford to move out of home unless they have someone to live with. I certainly couldn't afford to pay my rent if I lived on my own (and there's no way I can afford to buy yet). This situation is becoming more common - the average age for a person to move out of their parents home in SE England is approaching 30.

The biggest shame about it is not for the child but for the parents. After years of raising a family they would probably love to have a bit of time to themselves....

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by Gerald Davis:
Do you think it�s wrong if you someone is still living with there parents over after 30. Should they make effort to leave even if the rental is very expensive and could cut their spend power in half?

In the UK, yeah, sort of!

But then, if you take into account the inflated house prices, it is a wise decision too. One might want to invest all they have in a one-bedroom apartment (if that�s all they can afford) and put it on rent, if ones parents have a huge mansion down the country, near a commuter line. The rent income will pay off the mortgage, he/she can support his or her parents (especially if they are elderly and need assistance), and everyone wins.

IMO, it is rather wrong for a 30-some man in a box-room at their parents!
[ January 17, 2005: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Jeroen Wenting]

I've a niece who's about 40 who still lives with her parents, and still does the same in the household as when she was 10 (iow, nothing at all).

If I'd not have reason to move out (study far away, later working on the other side of the country), who knows?
I'd probably have moved out if only for the extra space (my parential home wasn't exactly large, my room being about 3x1.5 meters in size) but not for social reasons (except maybe my parents' have kicked me out, they firmly believe in children moving out into independence ).

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:
[QB]I know of several people in their mid-late 20s who still live at home with their parents, and probably still will be when they hit their 30th birthday. For them the reason is purely financial - not the "I want more geeky toys"
QB]

I am also a non gadget geek. The only thing I need is a cheep computer with internet connection, so I can work on my open-source project and some bear. Life would have bean that simple if it wasn't for me wanting a wife. Which isn't very likely if I stay put.

My mother and sister want me to stay partly because of financial reason. My sister goes through pizza and junk food like theirs no tomorry and If I was to take the broadband connection she would be heart broken.

[Helen Thomas]

My friend married his girl friend because of tax incentives to do so. He'd have been quite happy living in sin otherwise.
Tax relief on mortgages for the couple if they were married. It has been scrapped since.
[ January 14, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[Marc Peabody]

Ever think about going back to college? It's cheap housing and there are lots of girls. But is it worth the boku student loans?

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Marc Peabody:
Ever think about going back to college? It's cheap housing and there are lots of girls. But is it worth the boku student loans?

The university that I went to prominently displayed its male to female ratio in its prospectus (1:3) in order to try and persuade more males to join! It was all but saying "Even you have a chance of pulling with this number of women to choose from." Of course this had nothing to do with me choosing it of course . Coincidently I did meet my current girlfriend while I was there though......

Maybe universities should do more of this - forget study facilities, focus on what a student really wants - people to meet, beer to drink and loud music to listen to.

As for the student loans.... urgh, less said the better about them - I'm still paying a nasty amount every month on my student loan, and will continue to do so for a large number of years to come. As a rough measure of how much of a pain it is, I can only afford to pay about the same as half the monthly loan payment into my pension every month, mainly because a lot of my spare money goes to paying off my loan. So much for the govt persuading people to save for the future
[ January 17, 2005: Message edited by: Joe King ]

[Sania Marsh]

Originally posted by Joe King:


As for the student loans.... urgh, less said the better about them - I'm still paying a nasty amount every month on my student loan, and will continue to do so for a large number of years to come. As a rough measure of how much of a pain it is, I can only afford to pay about the same as half the monthly loan payment into my pension every month, mainly because a lot of my spare money goes to paying off my loan. So much for the govt persuading people to save for the future

[ January 17, 2005: Message edited by: Joe King ]

I keep trying to understand american education system.
What the student exactly pays for?
In my last school, grad student would pay $1,400 per course + $250 lab fees (almost all CS courses had lab fees). Course usually have 8 - 30 students.
So it is $11,200 - $42,000 that students paid for the course and roughly in average $4,000 lab fees per course. Teacher is paid $2,000 - $4,000 per course so in average school gets about $20,000 after paying the teacher. Take in count that school offers about 8-16 courses per 3 months for each major and has about 7-10 majors plus roughly 15 - 20 undergrad courses per semester, same number of majors and same fees ans grad school.
Cannot believe that much money is needed to run the school...
Labs have worst computers, yet school keeps calling alumni to donate money for labs. Where those $4000 per course, 12 courses per trimester = $16,000 (only grad school, double to include undergrad) per month go?

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by Joe King:
the average age for a person to move out of their parents home in SE England is approaching 30

Where did you get this statistic?
I know ONE man I work with who is in his late twenties and still lives at home and for him it's more of a cultural thing than anything else. He has a reasonably paid job and contributes financially to the housekeeping but as I understand it that is what is expected from his culture. He has freedom to do as he wishes otherwise. I have friends all over the country and I can't think of a single one of them that didn't leave home before they were 21.
Leaving home was the best thing I ever did, as much as I love my parents there is little they can practically do to prepare you for living away and the only way to experience it is to go out and face it, and I think it's best to do that as young as possible and before they leave you and you're forced to face it.

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Rita Moore:

I keep trying to understand american education system.
What the student exactly pays for?

I've never understood the American education system! Here in the UK its a bit more simple. When people go to university there is a tuition fee, payable once a year, that is standard for all universities - it is set by the government. Up until recently its been about $2000. The rest of the money that the university needs is paid by the government. In order to pay this amount, and pay living expenses, students take out a loan from the government.

Unfortunately the system doesn't really work - the tuition fee is not high enough to pay the entire costs of the course and with more people doing degrees the government is paying out larger amounts to the universities every year. The other problem is that the loan that a student can get is far too small. When I went to university my student loan didn't even cover my rent for the year, let alone my fees or livings expenses. The loan system has an additional flaw - the loan has to be repaid now, while I am in the early stages of my career and not making much money, rather than later on in my career when I could better afford it.

Recently there's been a bit of a change. The government have (gone back on an manifesto promise and) begun bringing in a law which will make a large increase in the tuition fee. Even worse then that, the law could allow different universities to charge different amounts. Under the old system, as each university charged the same amount, students chose their university based upon the courses offered and upon their own abilities. Under the new system students will be forced to choose universities based upon their (or their parents') wealth meaning that only rich students will be able to go to the top universities.

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:

Where did you get this statistic?

I saw it on the BBC website somewhere. Annoyingly I can't find it now (hope I didn't hallucinate the whole thing ). I did find a couple of related stories of interest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3276039.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2844295.stm

Leaving home was the best thing I ever did, as much as I love my parents there is little they can practically do to prepare you for living away and the only way to experience it is to go out and face it, and I think it's best to do that as young as possible and before they leave you and you're forced to face it.

Absolutely. I get on very well with my parents, but moving away from home was the best thing I ever did. It taught me an awful lot - I was completely clueless when I moved out of university halls and got my own place. Sometimes I wonder about what it would be like to move back - one of my friends has recently lost his job and may have to move back in with his parents. I'm not sure that I could do it - I'm too used to having my own space now. Some people aren't lucky enough to have the choice though.

[Gerald Davis]

I moved from home today, I am kind of happy with my place and it has enough scope to make it homely. My true place remains at home though.

The best news of all is I only have to give my family $186 a month to help feed my little sisters junk food habits and treatment for her psoriasis.

Ps Don't ask me why I specified the amount in dollars.

[Nick Allen]

The propensity towards nuclear family groups, which for this argument might as well include 30plus people in western society living on their own, is largely resultant of the industrial revolution and was greatly increased by the (arguable) economic success of capitalism in the mid-late twentieth century. It makes since that globalization would spread economic wealth over a wider base, thus making some(or most) of us poor westerners poorer, and, god forbid, have cause to revert to the far more common case of extended families living in the same house.

[Steven Bell]

Originally posted by Nick Allen:
The propensity towards nuclear family groups, which for this argument might as well include 30plus people in western society living on their own, is largely resultant of the industrial revolution and was greatly increased by the (arguable) economic success of capitalism in the mid-late twentieth century. It makes since that globalization would spread economic wealth over a wider base, thus making some(or most) of us poor westerners poorer, and, god forbid, have cause to revert to the far more common case of extended families living in the same house.

I'm not quite sure how you think capitalism and globalization has made anybody poorer. Pick any free market society and stand it up to any other type of economy. The 'poor' in free market societies live better than many middle and upper class of other countries. In the US the average 'poor' person has two color TV's, a fridge/freezer, a microwave, one-two car(s). Makes you wonder wether it is a good thing or bad thing that one of the major risks of being 'poor' in the US is being overweight.

[Gerald Davis]

The rich are getting richer and so are the poor, just not as fast. Competition in the market drive down prices of many goods. Unfortunately the same thing is inclined to happen with wages.
Outsources is going to have an effect on the western countries and poorer countries will have their day.

If you want to better understand the effects of capitalism then compare America with UK. UK is less of a capitalist country then America. What is the difference between the lifestyle of the poor in those countries?

[John Dunn]

What is the difference between the lifestyle of the poor in those countries? The poor in Britian can NEVER become "upper-class"!!