Are we really such a mystery?

[Angela Poynton]

A number of posts in here lately have confused and frustrated me.

Are women really such a mystery to you guys?

We're just people, like you, trying to get through day to day life and the ups and downs it brings and hoping to generate a little happiness along the way.

Like some guys there are some of us who for reasons unknown to me are shallow and selfish but the vast majority of us aren't and wish that would be acknowledged here a little more than the fact that a woman can and indeed wishes to be "bought" with trinkets or can only be attracted by money / Conventional good looks. A little respect please.

We're shy and insecure, like some of you guys, we share most of the same fears; "Will they reject me if I make a move?", "Am I good enough?" etc.
We worry just as much as you guys about how to keep a relationship going and how to make our partner happy. It's not all take, take, take.
We're also individuals and don't take lightly the fact that we are rarely referred to as such. In fact I find it offensive to see statements such as "Women like such and such" or "Women do such and such". I'd be lept on and flamed to a crisp if I made such statements about men.

There is no right answer to the following questions:
How can I find a woman who will like me?
How should I ask the woman I like out?
What should I buy her for her birthday/Valentines/Christmas etc?
Is this woman right for me?

and other such questions ... there is no right answer because each situation involves two individuals who have two individual personalities and the best solution will be unique to them. The answer can only really come from the questionner.

A little advice for you all. Treat the women in your life with respect like the individual human beings that they are and you will get the best from them.

[Gail Schlentz]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
A little advice for you all. Treat the women in your life with respect like the individual human beings that they are and you will get the best from them.

AWESOME advice, Angela!! Well said.

[Ellen Zhao]

ho ho~~, I guess this is much too rosy, doesn't sound like reality, right?

[Marc Peabody]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:

Are women really such a mystery to you guys?

Men simply like formulas. We like to know that if we do X, the result is Y. If the effort is 8X, the result of appreciation is 8Y. It may sound stupid, but that's how we operate. And as men, we just like to know that our effort is appreciated.

I once watched my wife go through old letters and such that I'd given her over the years. It surprised me to see that the ones that meant the most to her were the ones that required the least amount of effort from me, like a random Hallmark card with a single sentence in it. Now that I think of it, she sent me a number of similar cards or letters like that and the usual response in my head was, "She must have gotten really bored or something." and then throw it in the trash.

So please forgive my formulaic statement to the guys here in that it's really more about the little things.

[Jeroen Wenting]

A few years ago I read an essay about contact with alien species.
The author concluded that human beings are excellently equipped for such contact, after all we've been practicing it for thousands of years.
His reasoning was that the sexes are so different not just physically but mentally that where communication between them is involved they might as well be 2 different species.

Yes, you are a mystery to us
Maybe it's in part because many people in IT (both the males and supposedly the females) aren't the most socially adept specimens.

[Thomas Paul]

In answer to the question posed by this thread, "Yes!!!"

Here's a typical conversation between two guys where one has done something pretty bad to the other:

Guy 1: Sorry, man.

Guy 2: It's cool.

Guy 1: Want to watch some football?

Guy 2: Sure... you're buying.

And that is the end of it. With a woman this could take days to settle, involve gallons of tears, and they never, ever let you forget whatever it was about.

If I live to be 150, I will never understand women.

[Neeru Misra]

woman - the woe of man

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Are women really such a mystery to you guys?

No, not at all.

Its just that I dont understand what will please/upset her.

[Sonny Gill]

I think Angela was really serious when she started this thread, let us not hijack with any more forwarded mails that everyone has seen a hundred times

[Stephen Huey]

Mystery? Nah. We KNOW ya'll aren't explainable to a satisfactory degree.


The real mystery is why I let myself go absolutely berserk (to the point of screaming sometimes) trying to get things right with your kind.

[Warren Dew]

Angela Poynton:

Are women really such a mystery to you guys?

Yes. Um, let me edit some of your post to illustrate the differences. The stuff in brackets regarding women is to be replaced with the stuff in boldface to understand guys.

We're just people, like you, trying to get through day to day life and the ups and downs it brings and hoping to generate a little [happiness] sex along the way.

Like [some] all guys there are some of us who for reasons unknown to me are shallow and selfish but [the vast majority] none of us aren't

We're [shy and] loud to cover up when we are insecure

We don't worry [just as much as you guys] about how to keep a relationship going and how to make our partner happy except insofar as it will get her to sleep with us.

A little advice for you all. Treat the [women] men in your life with [respect] continuous ego boosts like the [individual human beings] self centered louts that they are and you will get the best from them.

Now, given that the stuff in bold describes us, can you see how women, as you (quite accurately) describe them, are so alien to us?
[ February 04, 2005: Message edited by: Warren Dew ]

[Raghav Sam]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Treat the women in your life with respect like the individual human beings that they are and you will get the best from them.

Quite true, I have seen positive effects with such an approach. No kidding!

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Angela Poynton:

Are women really such a mystery to you guys?

Yes. Um, let me edit some of your post to illustrate the differences. The stuff in brackets regarding women is to be replaced with the stuff in boldface to understand guys.

We're just people, like you, trying to get through day to day life and the ups and downs it brings and hoping to generate a little [happiness] sex along the way.

Like [some] all guys there are some of us who for reasons unknown to me are shallow and selfish but [the vast majority] none of us aren't

We're [shy and] loud to cover up when we are insecure

We don't worry [just as much as you guys] about how to keep a relationship going and how to make our partner happy except insofar as it will get her to sleep with us.

A little advice for you all. Treat the [women] men in your life with [respect] continuous ego boosts like the [individual human beings] self centered louts that they are and you will get the best from them.

Now, given that the stuff in bold describes us, can you see how women, as you (quite accurately) describe them, are so alien to us?

[ February 04, 2005: Message edited by: Warren Dew ]

I'm glad you wrote that and not me... you have just done to men what I was complaining people are doing to women .. pigeon-holing them... no two human beings irrespective of gender are the same, as such you can never completely define them, and never accurately predict them, all you can do is listen and learn as much as you can about them and make your best guess.

[Helen Thomas]

Women are supposed to be a mystery not Windows.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
I'm glad you wrote that and not me... you have just done to men what I was complaining people are doing to women .. pigeon-holing them... no two human beings irrespective of gender are the same, as such you can never completely define them, and never accurately predict them, all you can do is listen and learn as much as you can about them and make your best guess.

You are right... Warren's description doesn't apply to all men. Or so I have heard.

[John Smith]

Women are people, too?

[Helen Thomas]

Bill Gates should have more women on his team.

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by R K Singh:

No, not at all.

Its just that I dont understand what will please/upset her.

I think the three "L"s need to be applied when trying to get to know anyone, again irrespective of gender.

LOOK
LISTEN
LEARN

Watch the person and listen to them and you quickly pick up so many clues about they like/dislike and why. Then remember it. It's quite simple really, so many people just don't do this anymore and end up 5 years into a relationship still not knowing something as simple what their partner's favourite colour is.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
I think the three "L"s need to be applied when trying to get to know anyone, again irrespective of gender.

LOOK
LISTEN
LEARN

And I was thinking that they[read women] like to be mysterious.

I think, aging may result obscure affect on human

[Bacon]

Women are great. They are however very different from men in many ways.

And yes Angela, they are a mystery to us. It's a mystery that cannot be solved and men cannot cease to try to solve. It's just one of those things.

A co-worker of mine with a 15 year old son, told me that his son asked how long it took to figure out women (obviously frustrated). Most guys over 30 will just laugh at such a silly question. The young lad is in for a long haul!

Example: Woman comes home with a new hair cut, man doesn't notice. He's now in deep poo! Now have the same situation with 2 men. Very different. I simply don't see the offence, yet it is obviously very profound. I have learned to make a mental note when my wife is getting her hair cut to make sure and say something when I get home. Learned that the hard way.

My is a wonderful woman and I get great happiness from seeing her happy. After 18 years of marraige, I know what to do and what not to do. Do I understand why these things work? Not a clue. Its just conditioned behaviour!

[Helen Thomas]

Originally posted by Ray Marsh:
Example: Woman comes home with a new hair cut, man doesn't notice. He's now in deep poo! Now have the same situation with 2 men. Very different. I simply don't see the offence, yet it is obviously very profound. I have learned to make a mental note when my wife is getting her hair cut to make sure and say something when I get home. Learned that the hard way.

Wouldn't honesty be the best policy ? Mental notes to say something suggests the answer is prepared.

[Bacon]

Honesty is the best policy.

It's not a matter of a prepared statement or being dishonest. She always looks nice and sometimes tries something different (hair-cut, clothes, etc), however, some guys (this guy) aren't always good at appreciating it. I know it means a lot to her when I notice it and say something. And I do mean it.

She can see right through me anyway. If I don't give a ringing endorsement of a new dress, haircut or even a new dish for dinner, it's likely I'll not see it again.

I guess we're a little old fashioned in that way.

[Damanjit Kaur]

To me, Men are mystery

At my job, I try to keep everyone happy. But few of my male colleagues take it wrong all the time. They feel that I try to take advantage of my female status by seducing my male superiors to get an advantage over them and proviking my superiors against them.

No matter how hard I work, how hard I try to be nice with my male colleagues to convince them about their wrong pereceptions, they stick with their stupid views. I am so much annoyed with one of my male colleague that I feel like throwing him out of the window whenever I see him. I have lost my patience.

[Bacon]

There is a book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"

While I have not yet read the book, the title says it all!

Point is, we are very different in some significant ways. It's not a matter of one being better than another anymore than one nationality being better than another. Just different.

[Marc Peabody]

That's a very good book. I made it a point when I was single not to marry a girl if she hadn't read it.

And I'm glad for it. When I want to be left alone my wife knows to give me some "cave time". I understand that when she vents about work she is not blaming me and does not want my solutions and so I listen and offer my empathy.

I recommend it to anyone.

[John Dunn]

AP: Wouldn't honesty be the best policy ?
You are a real mystery. NO!! Honesty is not the best policy, when a woman wants to be told what she wants to hear - even if she can't see it herself.

On another note: One of my buddies, is always dating a few smokin' women at once and he gets away with so much. I asked if he was worried that he might piss some of these Goddess's off. And he calmly replied, "John, chicks love to be treated like sh**. So they're happy when if I do that. In fact, they need to be treated like sh**. So I'm really just helping them out."

I was married by that time, but I don't think I could have ever gotten the gall to try it out. In fairness to my buddy, he is a master player. So, yes, Angela, women are a mystery.

[John Dunn]

On a more serious note, I did find women to be a bit unpredictable when I was dating, BUT I really loved finding the suprising side of women. Example, some females can be so incredibly, genuinely straight and conservative in public, and raging sexual beasts behind closed doors. Sometimes the mysterious side of women can be awesome.

[Madhav Lakkapragada]

Originally posted by Ray Marsh:
There is a book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"

While I have not yet read the book, the title says it all!

Point is, we are very different in some significant ways. It's not a matter of one being better than another anymore than one nationality being better than another. Just different.

Yes they are different, I agree absolutely.

Is honesty the best policy ?
ummm...depends on the question. Have you ever tried the question 'Honey, how do I look? Do you think I should trim down (lose weight)?'
The honest answer is 'Yes'. [And remember that salad you are eatimg to cut down the calories.] But, that's not the best answer. If you respond that way, the best possible thing that can happen is - you get a justification as to why she is fat and why she is trying hard to cut down.

When a guy hears this justification, the reaction in his head goes this way Honey, I don't need a justification. I understand you are working on it and doing a good job. You asked me something and I gave you my straight and honest answer.

The thing is you take one position and stick with it. You think you are fat so you are cutting your calories and exercising. But when I say that, suddenly its a mistake and if I don't say it I don't support her in what she wants to acheive. What am I supposed to do - talk about the weather. (Uh ah....you never listen to what I am saying, i just asked you something and you are watching the weather.)
So, should I be honest, NO!!! You look great the way you are. You are just being sercastic (forgive the spelling). Can't you answer something straight.

So, it all depends on the context.

Men are from Mars....I have heard of that book too. Never read that, I plan to.

Another episode from my buddy - They are driving to Chicago from Columbus, that's a 6 hour drive. His plan is to grab something on the way and eat while driving (like a burrito; ok, its safe enough to do, he's a safe driver), reach home and call it a day. Her plan - sit down in a restaurent (you should always take meals leisurly), have their meal and continue their drive. See the difference ?


Damanjit Kaur
To me, Men are mystery


Sorry to say, but you are so confused. You seem to be basing your judgement about men on one example of hatered of one/some of your male colleagues. I beg to differ with your views. To me this situation seems to be something about an inter-office politics, not a general men verses women thing. I apologize in advance if I misunderstood you. Wonder if anyone else feels this way.

Anyways, I think I said too much. I better get to the dishes today.

- m

[Bacon]

My favorite Q&A...

Wife: "Honey, does this dress make my butt look big?"

Husband: long pause

Wife: "Well?"

Husband: "Hang on a sec, my life is still flashing before my eyes."

[Hussein Baghdadi]

Personally, I didn't see any guy rejects a girl, but 99% of girls reject guys ...
And many of the guys that I know (about %99.999) think that girls just want the rich guys.
the problem is : Guys (I'm one of them) don't know how girls think, girls can explode for nothing !!
[ February 04, 2005: Message edited by: John Todd ]

[kayal cox]

Personally, I didn't see any guy rejects a girl, but 99% of girls reject guys ...

And I have always felt it to be the other way round :roll:

[Helen Thomas]

It's time to point out that a kiss can pass 40,000 parasites, 250 types of bacteria and 0.4 grams of fat.

[Damanjit Kaur]

Madhav Lakkapragada

Sorry to say, but you are so confused. You seem to be basing your judgement about men on one example of hatered of one/some of your male colleagues. I beg to differ with your views. To me this situation seems to be something about an inter-office politics, not a general men verses women thing.

Well Its not that I hate men but its their general perception about women which annoys me.

I gave you one example about my job. I certainly didn't based my judgement on just this one incident. Incidents resembling this happens in other spheres of life too- between husband n wife, boyfriend n girlfriend and the cause behind all such incidents is different from situation to situation.

Women are more detail oriented while Men are not and that might be the reason for Men to see Women as mystery because they tend to overlook certain things.

[Helen Thomas]

There's a report of a Harvard President who, at a seminar to discuss women and minorities in Science and Engineering, made the remark that women were not as good as men when it came to pure sciences especially mathematics.
Gifted women tend to study medecine or law but are very rare to non-existent on the edges of scientific inquiry.

A women professor walked out. She said if she had stayed she would either have blacked out or vomited.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1284885.htm
[ February 05, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[Damanjit Kaur]

Cam imagine the agony of that woman Professor who walked out.

[Warren Dew]

What's a professor at MIT doing saying that the president of Harvard "is the, really, spokesman for American education"? She should think that MIT's female president has that role. Let's have some University loyalty here!

[Neeru Misra]

Once a Univ Prof (name of the institution withheld) told me it is a greater fun to see a woman fall in the mud than a male.

[Madhav Lakkapragada]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
It's time to point out that a kiss can pass 40,000 parasites, 250 types of bacteria and 0.4 grams of fat.

Helen,

Did you have something to do with this?

- m

[Helen Thomas]

It's a well known scientific fact amongst scientists.

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
It's time to point out that a kiss can pass 40,000 parasites, 250 types of bacteria and 0.4 grams of fat.

Helen, you old Romantic you!

I'm not denying there are differences but I refuse to acknowledge that we are SO different that such basic things as "What present should I get her?" cause so much confusion.
As I see it you put the same thought processes into buying a present for your partner as you would for anyone else.

Have they mentioned or hinted at something that they'd like to have lately?
Have they been having problems with something that I can buy something to solve?
Are they into certain movies? Types of Music? (anything else)

Usually answering one of these questions will make buying any present simple.
Christmas 2004 I commissioned an artist friend of mine to paint a portrait of someone my boyfriend really admires. It cost a lot of money but I was happy to pay it because I knew he would really appreciate it.
He bought me the Star Wars DVD Box set.

When we opened our gifts and he saw what I had bought him he thought he'd commited an awful faux pas. He was wrong. I loved the present. Why? It was something I wanted and had a few weeks before Christmas mentioned it to him as we passed them in the video shop. He remembered, knows I'm a Sci-Fi fan and bought them because he knew I would appreciate it.
Maybe some girls are different, more than one of my friends think I was hard done by but I don't believe I was. So I paid a lot more for his present and it seemed more valuable because it was created just for him. That wasn't what I was trying to achieve, I just wanted to get him something he'd appreciate and enjoy for years to come and he just wanted the same for me. I'm beginning to think I'm in a minority by putting more importance on the simple things in a relationship.