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Choosing a martial art

 
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Hi.
I'm thinking to learn a martial art.
My first candidates :
Aikido.
Kick Boxing.
Taekwondo
Any ideas how to choose the best for me ?
 
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I recommend the English Fighting System; it is great if you don�t want to dedicate your life to martial arts. However, if you get hold of a broomstick while you are fighting, I would recommend the Kendo martial arts.
 
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It depends on your purpose. Do you want to be prepared for a street fight, compete, get in shape, use it as a stress release (meditative)? If your looking for defense I've found some of the best comes from mixing several different arts. There are usually a few places that teach several as part of a comprehensive art.
 
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Find a school that matches your own objectives ... a good workout, physical improvement - strength, speed, flexibility, balance - a spiritual element, serious self defense needs, a competitive atmosphere, whatever is sending you this way. I take Kung Fu at a school with a good balance. I go to the kid's class with my son so the emphasis is on fundamentals. We have fun and get a great workout, but there are regular reminders that all this was developed to hurt people and you have to be respectful of what you learn. The adult class after ours is much tougher - put on your game face, push yourself to the limits, take a few hits in sparring.

Where do you live? I moved from Kansas where schools were rare to northeast Pennslyvania where there are many to choose from. You could visit, observe, maybe take a free class at a number of them and see what agrees with you.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
 
Hussein Baghdadi
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Thanks guys.
I don't want to be a master of something, just a physical activity..
AFAIK, Aikido is the most difficult art and kick boxing is so violence.
So, I think Taekwondo is a good choice, what do you think ?
Any storeis about these arts (just to share it) ??
Gracias.
 
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I've spent over twenty five active years in the martial arts, and it's a very important part of my life. Accordingly, I'm very careful about offering advice. But. Here's some information I've come to trust:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/martial-arts/faq/
 
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As stated just above, I guess it depends on what you wish to achieve. I would advise you try a few styles, and a few clubs. Find a club with a good [not aggressive] atmosphere.

As for styles, stay away from the various arguments about which style is �best�; it�s a flawed concept. For physical activity, from the list you gave; Taekwondo can be sporty, with lots of high kicks. [but I�m no Taekwondo expert].

�I recommend the English Fighting System� � I think Boxing was (is) the "NewSpeak" of European martial arts. Not a bad thing, considering all the Charva types in the UK.

��and your body will flow with the winds of their hated, and take them to the destruction they seek�
 
Gerald Davis
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Originally posted by Peter Rooke:

�I recommend the English Fighting System� � I think Boxing was (is) the "NewSpeak" of European martial arts.



Bare knuckle boxing is very much different then what modern boxing is today. For a start bare knuckle boxers hold their arms are held much lower than the boxing guard of today. It made much sense back then because it was legal to grapple and throw the opponent.
Indeed there was a few other implication of not wearing gloves that made bare knuckle boxing different from modern boxing.
 
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Gerald Davis:


Bare knuckle boxing is very much different then what modern boxing is today. For a start bare knuckle boxers hold their arms are held much lower than the boxing guard of today. It made much sense back then because it was legal to grapple and throw the opponent.
Indeed there was a few other implication of not wearing gloves that made bare knuckle boxing different from modern boxing.



Gerald,

While it' true that the bare knuckle boxing of yesteryear is a very different beast then today's boxing, your suggestion about arms being lowered, and the rationalization foe why that might be so, is incorrect.

Lowered arms do not help fend off an opponent who might strike, grapple, and/or throw. As a matter of fact, lowering your arms in a fight is usually an invitation to your opponent to strike you, which would be followed by other strikes, kicks, and/or throws.

What you are referring to as bare knuckle boxing would today be more aptly described as pit fighting. The participants did not lower their arms to fight. However, they did lower them for photographs, which is where you might have gotten the idea that arms were lowered during the actual pugilism.

As for gloves, they are worn by the modern boxer today not so much to protect the opponent, but in order to protect the hands of the fighter throwing the punch. Here's why.

Your hands are delicate, beautiful, and wondrous instruments of articulation. They are designed to stroke fine hair, playing the piano,write love poetry, and other such activities. They are not meant to be used as blunt conclusive weapons attached to the ends of your wrists. If you were actually able to punch with as much power as your body is capable of generating, that is, all the power that your calves, heights, abdomen, chest, shoulders, and arms are capable of generating, your hand would shatter on impact.

Fortunately, most people are incapable of striking hard enough to hurt themselves. However, boxers are so capable, which is why they wear hand protection. As to when and why modern boxers started wearing padded gloves, that's another story altogether.

All best,
M
 
Gerald Davis
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Other martial arts use a lower guard then boxing, does that make them incorrect? The fact that Bare-Knuckle Boxers do not wear gloves does have a bearing on the height of guard. Kick boxers as with boxers wear gloves they also have a higher guard.

What implication do you think if Judo fighters ware to higher their guard to the same as that of a boxer.
 
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The first martial art I learned was in the military - how to shoot things. If that's not a martial art, I don't know what is.

The second martial art that I picked up for a little bit was Tae Kwon Do. That was kind of fun, but my feet were perpetually sore. It occurred to me that shooting things was more efficient, and didn't leave me quite as bruised.

My third attempt at the martial arts was marriage.
 
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Your hands are delicate, beautiful, and wondrous instruments of articulation.

As is the rest of our bodies. For one [initially hard] style, I did a bit of forearm conditioning for a short while - I think we were damaging nerves, so that it did not hurt (as much) when blocking / striking. A bit too brutal for me nowadays

It occurred to me that shooting things was more efficient

- Always was; Genghis Khan and the Mongols, English Longbow.

The first martial art I learned was in the military - how to shoot things. If that's not a martial art, I don't know what is.

- Not shooting things

My third attempt at the martial arts was marriage.

Nice one
[ March 20, 2005: Message edited by: Peter Rooke ]
 
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John,

Martial arts have been an important part of my life, and training in a martial art can have a big (positive) influence on your life. I hope you go ahead with this.

It can be pretty pointless to compare different martial arts unless you have a very well defined goal. Most of the people who continue to train in martial arts do it for the many benefits it brings to them, including ability to defend themselves, self confidence, getting better at dealing with people, learning how to make the most of your strengths, and how to deal with your weaknesses, and the list goes on. In this respect, what is more important is to choose the right teacher and the right school rather than choosing the right martial art or style. If you can find the right teacher (and the right school), you will get all that irrespective of what martial art you are learning.

I have been training in (Yoshinkan) Aikido for years, and it works for me. I like exploring other arts, but have stuck to Aikido all along. Even after many years, there is enough in it to learn and unravel, that I can imagine spending another 10, 20 or 30 years practising it. But if I had to move to a place where I cant find a good Aikido school, I will switch to any other martial art if I can find a good teacher.

Now, in my personal opinion, if you are interested in learning how to defend yourself, boxing and Muay Thai (Thai boxing) are your best bets. Kyukushin is one of the tougher styles of Karate you might want to check out, although I have heard good things about Shorin Ryu karate as well. If you are looking at martial arts as an activity that you would like to continue doing for years to come, explore Tai Chi and Aikido. Within Aikido, different styles vary a lot in how they practice it. Yoshinkan is more combat oriented and physical of the lot, other styles tend to gravitate more towards the spiritual aspects of it (and many times lose the martial aspect totally). Also have a look at Brazilian Jiu Jutsu, you may find it interesting, its practice is very different from most other arts.

The best way to decide would be to go observe some classes in session, and do a trial class or two if those are offered, talk to the instructors, and very important, see how students treat each others and the instructors.

Good luck.
 
Max Habibi
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Other martial arts use a lower guard then boxing,

Very, very few, actually: perhaps some of more exotic forms of Kung Fu. Most martial arts teach you to keep your guard up. Even TKD practitioners are taught to keep their hands up: it's just that most often, given the confines of the rules they engage in, they don't need to: hence, what's commonly refered to as the 'bunny hop' style of fighting, with arms at thier sides.

does that make them incorrect?

Martial artists tend to get just as religious about their chosen perspective as J2EE guys, and there tends to be a large dichotomy between those who practice martial arts as a means of enlightenment vs. those who practice martial arts for purely self defense. I'm no exception to this rule: I have strong opinions on what is and isn't correct in terms of martial arts. After almost three decades of practice, I think I've earned the right to my opinion.

It's unkind to say so, but not all martial arts are created equal, in terms of physical self defense. Some are wonderful places to relax the mind, make a few friends, and work up a good sweat. Others are focused on violence, and are quite good at it. In the some thirty years of martial arts training I've had, over the 80 competitions I've competed in, and over 20 cage matches that I've fought in, I've found that the two are very rarely combined into a single art.


The fact that Bare-Knuckle Boxers do not wear gloves does have a bearing on the height of guard.


I understand your assertion, but I'm unaware of the facts that it's based on, Can you please explain to me why wearing gloves inclines a boxes to raise his guard?

Kick boxers as with boxers wear gloves they also have a higher guard.


It's been my observation that anyone who actually fights full contact maintains a high guard: it's people who don't have to worry about getting knocked out that don't do so.

What implication do you think if Judo fighters ware to higher their guard to the same as that of a boxer.

I would think they were a good Judo player. Judoka traditionally maintain a very high guard, based on the five years of six-day-a-week judo training I participated in at OSU.

M
 
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and over 20 cage matches that I've fought in
Yikes. Ultimate Fighting???!!!
 
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I like judo, but it is not a martial art. Jujitsu, on the other hand, is a martial art.
 
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by John Dunn:
and over 20 cage matches that I've fought in
Yikes. Ultimate Fighting???!!!



Not professional stuff, mind you. But yes, real cage matches, real blood, real broken bones, etc.

M
 
Gerald Davis
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Originally posted by Max Habibi:

Very, very few, actually: perhaps some of more exotic forms of Kung Fu. Most martial arts teach you to keep your guard up



What I meant is most martial arts guard is lower then that of boxing at shoulder level. Shoulder level guard is more well rounded, this cover anything below your waist as well. Plus is more of a relaxed stance that provides more mobility.


Originally posted by Max Habibi:

I understand your assertion, but I'm unaware of the facts that it's based on, Can you please explain to me why wearing gloves inclines a boxes to raise his guard?



Because the boxers didn't wear gloves, the modern practice of covering up and 'hiding' was far less effective of course. Covering up and hiding is easier with a higher guard.

With bare knuckle boxing the favoured defensive option was to parry the punches, and to make parries work you need the space and time to react. The boxers fought further apart than they do today and the front hand was held in an extended position in order to deflect punches before they got too close to the head. The increased distance and the need to frequently use parries are the reasons why the old-style boxing guard had the hands lower and further out.
 
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Max Habibi:

Very, very few, actually: perhaps some of more exotic forms of Kung Fu. Most martial arts teach you to keep your guard up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What I meant is most martial arts guard is lower then that of boxing at shoulder level. Shoulder level guard is more well rounded, this cover anything below your waist as well. Plus is more of a relaxed stance that provides more mobility.



Gerald,

I'm having some trouble following your post. Do you mean that boxing guards are higher then shoulder level? Do you mean that shoulder level guards are "well rounded"? If so, what does 'Well Rounded" mean to you, and why is it a good thing in a fight? Are you asserting that a shoulder level guard protects your lower regions as well as your face?

If the latter is what you meant, I'm a little confused. How does a shoulder level guard, which has to move up to protect your face, and presumable move down to protect anything else, offer better protecting than a guard that already in place? I'm concerned, what martial arts system is teaching this?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Max Habibi:

I understand your assertion, but I'm unaware of the facts that it's based on, Can you please explain to me why wearing gloves inclines a boxes to raise his guard?

--------------------------




Because the boxers didn't wear gloves, the modern practice of covering up and 'hiding' was far less effective of course. Covering up and hiding is easier with a higher guard.


This practice of 'covering up and hiding', as you refer to it, is not a boxing technique, but a last ditch defensive mechanism that most people will use when all else fails. Most often, it happens what a " proper martial artist" steps into ring with a boxer gets hit for the first time in their life :-)


With bare knuckle boxing the favored defensive option was to parry the punches, and to make parries work you need the space and time to react.


Actually, this is incorrect. Effective parries happen inside of the clench range( dodging and weaving being used outside), and are best performed with the use of traps, nudges, and shoves. There is literally no time, in the thick of a fight, for the academic maneuvering you're referring to: things need to happen on instict. You might be able to parry a technique in class, when they thrown one at a time by a partner who will stop if you get tagged. However, in a fight, my experience has been that this theory simply doesn't work.

The boxers fought further apart than they do today

What is your basis for asserting that bare knuckle fighters fought further apart then the fighters of today? I'm asking because I'm in a full contact, bare-knuckle fight leaque(or pit fighting, of you will), and have been for the last seven years. Your statement is at odds with the reality I've observed.

and the front hand was held in an extended position in order to deflect punches before they got too close to the head.

In boxing, from it's earliest days thousands of years ago to now, a high guard has been taught for two reasons. First, the most effective way of protecting your head from injury is to actually put your hands in front of it. Second, because opponents are more likely to be hit when your hands are already at fighting position, as opposed to having to be [bruised[/i] to fighting position during the fight.


The increased distance and the need to frequently use parries are the reasons why the old-style boxing guard had the hands lower and further out.


My father always used to say that fact beats logic, every time. Your theory is an interesting one, but, AFIK, it's not consist ant with actually fighting history, reality, or practice.
Bare knuckle boxers, like all boxers, keep a high guard, because they actually know that a high guard is best way to fight: it's optimized for both defense and offense, and doesn't waste critical seconds of 'prep-time' required to raise the hands into position. In a fight, those seconds are critical.

ALmost all full-contact fighters(Maui Thai, BJJ, kyrunkusho, etc), know that a high guard is the best way to protect your person. They know this because they actually fight, take shots, get bruises, etc. The reason that boxers keep a high guard is the same reason they practice their footwork: because it actually works.

HTH,
M
 
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Mmm maybe you could fill me in on why Karate and other martial arts have different types of guard (hand position) then Boxers.

However, I am sure that we call all agree that Thai Boxing is one of the better martial arts for street fighting and high for ammeters and beginners who would need some practice before learning how to catch a low kick.
 
Max Habibi
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Mmm maybe you could fill me in on why Karate and other martial arts have different types of guard (hand position) then Boxers.

This is where some of the religious differences I mentioned above come into play. While it's true that some forms of karate do have a slightly different type guard than boxers, none are so foolish as to keep their hands at their waist: that's just not the way that fighting is done. It is, however, a wonderful way to facilitate a nap.



However, I am sure that we call all agree that Thai Boxing is one of the better martial arts for street fighting and high for ammeters and beginners who would need some practice before learning how to catch a low kick.

. I've actually competed against Thai and Bondo fighters in the Expert division of the National Kickboxing Championship in Columbus, Ohio in 1999(I ended up getting first runner up). Anyone who tries to catch a Thai Boxer's kicks is probably going to lose a hand: again, that's just not the way these things are done.

M
[ March 21, 2005: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
 
John Dunn
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Not professional stuff, mind you. But yes, real cage matches, real blood, real broken bones, etc. :-)
This is the sickest stuff I've ever seen. (to all the non-Americans: that is benign slang for outrageous.) But I might add, I always watch it if its on. It's Gladiator-come-to-life.

I am almost afraid to become a fan.
 
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I don't get it why people are so interested in learning martial arts.
Is'nt it for pleasing the animal in human to derive great pleasure by physical hurting someone?
I can understand if its taken as an hobby, or by a law enforcement officer and similar kinds.
But for an average joe, learning it and practically making use of it in this current world is far less.
I guess its similar to countries holding nuclear bombs, they wont use it, but spend a huge amount of resources to develop and maintain it.
some may argue that it teaches self discipline, confidence etc,but there are other and better ways to learn that
 
John Dunn
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Personally, when I see video of person splitting a board in half like a wet paper towel, I think all kids should learn it in kindergarden!! I'm sorry it took me so long to realize its beauty.
 
Steven Bell
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Originally posted by Roger Nelson:
I don't get it why people are so interested in learning martial arts.
Is'nt it for pleasing the animal in human to derive great pleasure by physical hurting someone?
I can understand if its taken as an hobby, or by a law enforcement officer and similar kinds.
But for an average joe, learning it and practically making use of it in this current world is far less.
I guess its similar to countries holding nuclear bombs, they wont use it, but spend a huge amount of resources to develop and maintain it.
some may argue that it teaches self discipline, confidence etc,but there are other and better ways to learn that



I disagree. Learning martial arts isn't about hurting someone. It's about control, respect, discipline, confidence, ect... I've studied various forms of martial arts for about 12 years, off and on. I have not seen anything else like it for taking teenagers headed in wrong directions and helping them get their life together. This is on top of the physical benifits of the exercise involved.

My son is now four and next month I'll be enrolling the both of us in a program.
 
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Originally posted by Gerald Davis:
I recommend the English Fighting System; it is great if you don�t want to dedicate your life to martial arts.

Are you referring to "scientific boxing" -- developed a little over two hundred years ago by Daniel Mendoza, an English Jew of Spanish ancestry)?

I've read that boxing is one of the best martial arts to learn, because you learn to tolerate pain and fight through it. Most of the Asian styles are so deadly that participants have to pull their punches, and therefore never get real experience. They never learn whether their skills are really practical until it's too late. Pulling punches in sparring trains the reflexes improperly. ("Red Man" training may be a solution. That's where the participant playing the attacker wears a padded suit and helmet.)

Originally posted by Gerald Davis:
However, if you get hold of a broomstick while you are fighting, I would recommend the Kendo martial arts.

That is especially good advice, because a cane or umbrella is the most effective weapon that a middle-aged Englishman is still allowed to carry. In fact, in skilled hands a cane is more effective than a knife.

Akido is also good, because you have finer control over the damage you do to your opponent. You can cause him severe pain without doing any permanent damage. In many places, avoiding attacks from the legal system takes priority over attacks by criminals. (For example, if I visit my in-laws in Kent this summer I will leave my gun and knife at home. I'll risk be helpless before criminals rather than have to face some judge's vengeance.)

Roger Nelson: I don't get it why people are so interested in learning martial arts. Isn't it for pleasing the animal in human to derive great pleasure by physical hurting someone?

It's more for the satisfaction of knowing that other people aren't going to get away with hurting you.


Roger Nelson: I can understand if its taken as an hobby, or by a law enforcement officer and similar kinds. But for an average joe, learning it and practically making use of it in this current world is far less.

Actually, nowadays criminals threaten violence even against people who are not law enforcement officers (or similar kinds). Hard to believe, isn't it? But I swear, it's true.

And in more and more countries, commoners face the same kinds of laws that forced Asian peasants to develop these arts in the first place.
 
Peter Rooke
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I don't get it why people are so interested in learning martial arts....


It's not all about fighting. And even when it is, there's a certain requirement for self discipline needed in the training. This is of course a transferable skill. Here is one meaning of the work 'Kung Fu' (their are a lot more!):
"Although the term was originally used solely in reference to Chinese martial arts, it refers to excellence achieved through long practice in any endeavor. You can say that a person's kung fu is good in cooking, or that someone has kung fu in calligraphy; saying that a person possesses kung fu in an area implies skill in that area, which they have worked hard to develop. Someone with "bad kung fu" simply has not put enough time and effort into training, or seems to lack the motivation to do so." [ Wikipedia, Kung fu ]
 
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Frank Silbermann:
That is especially good advice, because a cane or umbrella is the most effective weapon that a middle-aged Englishman is still allowed to carry. In fact, in skilled hands a cane is more effective than a knife.



I disagree on three counts. First, an umbrella is a fairly bad weapon, the Avengers notwithstanding. They are brittle, cheap, and difficult to use. A cane is a good weapon, but only insofar as it resembles a stick.

Secondly, a magazine, a glass of water, the ground, walls, and telephone polls make excellent weapons, and are to be found almost anywhere.

Finally, in hand-to-hand, close quarter ranges, there is simple no weapon that's more effective than a knife: not a gun, an umbrella, a banana, or a nuclear missile.

M
[ March 22, 2005: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
 
Frank Silbermann
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me: ... a cane or umbrella is the most effective weapon that a middle-aged Englishman is still allowed to carry. In fact, in skilled hands a cane is more effective than a knife.

Originally posted by Max Habibi:
I disagree on three counts. First, an umbrella is a fairly bad weapon, the Avengers notwithstanding. They are brittle, cheap, and difficult to use. A cane is a good weapon, but only insofar as it resembles a stick.

Point taken, but I've seen one website where for $150 dollars you can buy a really strong umbrella that's designed to hold up in a fight. In England, a young man might more easily get away with carrying an umbrella than a strong cane.

Originally posted by Max Habibi: Secondly, a magazine, a glass of water, the ground, walls, and telephone poles make excellent weapons, and are to be found almost anywhere.

I am skeptical about the degree of relative advantage these weapons would give you over an opponent.

Finally, in hand-to-hand, close quarter ranges, there is simple no weapon that's more effective than a knife: not a gun, an umbrella, a banana, or a nuclear missile.

A cane (or cane-strength umbrella) can help you keep the knifeman out of hand-to-hand range (if you're expert in the weapon). Also, most places that prohibit the carrying of handguns also prohibit knives -- so again, your self-defense strategy has to balance the threat posed by criminals against the threat posed by the police and courts.
 
Sonny Gill
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Originally posted by Frank Silbermann:

quote: Originally posted by Max Habibi: Secondly, a magazine, a glass of water, the ground, walls, and telephone poles make excellent weapons, and are to be found almost anywhere.

I am skeptical about the degree of relative advantage these weapons would give you over an opponent.



From my limited knowledge of martial arts, I assure you, the ground, walls and telephone poles can wreck havoc when they make contact with your face, skull, shoulders, back or hips
 
Steven Bell
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Originally posted by Sonny Gill:


From my limited knowledge of martial arts, I assure you, the ground, walls and telephone poles can wreck havoc when they make contact with your face, skull, shoulders, back or hips



Very true, but in order to use them you must put yourself in close proximity with your attacker. Something to be avoided if possible.
 
Sonny Gill
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Originally posted by Steven Bell:


Very true, but in order to use them you must put yourself in close proximity with your attacker. Something to be avoided if possible.



That depends upon what you are skilled in. A Boxing, Karate or Tae Kwon Do exponent has advantage at the striking distance. An Aikido, Judo or Jujutso exponent would want to close the distance as soon as possible, to be able to do a lock or a throw or to restrain and pin the attacker.
 
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Yes, this also very true of the Wing Chung style. Get in close, attach the center line with quick short hand techniques.
 
Frank Silbermann
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Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
From my limited knowledge of martial arts, I assure you, the ground, walls and telephone poles can wreck havoc when they make contact with your face, skull, shoulders, back or hips

Yes, but what if your opponent takes one of these weapons away from you to use against you? You're far better off leaving the ground, walls, and telephone poles at home.
 
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The population of San Francisco's Chinatown practices unknown for me kind of martial arts. It is called "walking on the street". To say that Chinatown is overcrowded would be an understatement. The movement in the overcrowd is strictly chaotical and the rules of the game are:

1) never yield to anybody
2) never apologize
3) never smile

Instead you walk right into your opponent, without saying a word. To my great surprise, there are no injuries and no quarrels so far.

For advanced students there is an exercise "walking on the street when it's raining", in which the overcrowd is all armed with umbrellas... I can't believe I still have two eyes.
[ March 24, 2005: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
 
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I have a feeling that some of this is cultural: some people take no offense to the normal bustling of walking on busy urban streets. It never seems to occur to them the other person had an opportunity to avoid them, and chose not to do so.

M
 
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Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
The population of San Francisco's Chinatown practices unknown for me kind of martial arts. It is called "walking on the street". ..



There is a similar, more cerebral martial art that get splayed on public transport all over the world and I used to play on the London Underground:

"The Eye Game"

Object: To observe your oponent and establish dominance in a mental Selection and Pre-amble: Select a random passenger and allow your gaze to fix on them. Assess their size strength, mental state, dress standards etc etc - formulate an entire bizare fantasy world that they live in... DO NOT avert your eyes or get distracted.
Bout: A bout occurs when your opponents looks up and their gaze meets your own, they become aware of your attention. The winner of the bout is the participant who looks away last!!

Some 'fights' are over after just one bout, many go on bout after bout!!

I found that the vast majority of players are very bad at this game and will look away instantly,... interestingly enough they become curious and want to see who is looking at them, but rarely have the courage to square up and take a longer look at whoever was staring at them!
[ March 24, 2005: Message edited by: Adrian Wallace ]
 
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it is interesting you have been to chinatown. many chinese stores lack space, their philosphy is to minimize middle cost, so customers can buy it cheap. at the same time, store can also make money.

i found this to do with lack of security. in history, chinese were conquered a few time by foreign power. what this means is distorted, hard lives for people, they have to save for rainy days.

but overall, i think china still has bright future.
 
Mapraputa Is
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Not to hijack this thread, but I need to clarify, because I suspect my rant can be read more negatively than it was intended. I don't see anything wrong with an absence of smiles and apologies per se, on the contrary � I was amused that both protocols work, as long as it isn't broken and participants meet each other expectations. Also, "unknown for me" wasn't completely correct, they practice the same kind of martial art in Russia, only a different school, where pushes and verbal abuses are allowed, while in Chinese school they are prohibited. Seriously, it is known that people being packed densely become aggressive, so I was surprised by absence of aggression on the streets � everybody eventually get where they want and they get there intact.
 
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when you plan to buy a home in, let's say, around nyc, sf, or other expensive zip, the cruel reality is: they do not care how cool you are, what kind of job you do, how much education you got, ...

you have to have downpayment, borrow a mortgage loan, make the payment each month. that is a big burden. we often hear people say "enjoy life". how important is home to life?

so even you are the most laidback type, you are still hook up with the cruel reality. no mention retirement, children education,....

i went to several chinese grocery stores here. the owners all live in some of the best neighborhood around here, much better than the one i can afford. and i suspect they paid cash to buy the home.

none of them can run as fast as me, none of them can lift as much as me, ....what a cruel reality. is this the american dream your guys were looking forward to?
 
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