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Consumer electronic prices?!

 
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After many yeasr of faithful service my old stereo Marantz amplifier finally gave up and its crackling dry solder infested selector switch drove me to investigate replacing my audio system!

I looked around and it seems that best value-for-money AV Recievers in my price range that meet my quality requirements are by Yamaha (with Denon being slightly out of price range).

After doing a few listening tests and reading some product reviews and generally making myself an informed consumer, I did what any impoverished purchaser would do and searched the wold for the best price - and I have uncovered an evil conspiracy to keep Australian consumers swamped with "low-end" gear!

[Model numbers provided just for those who are interested - but are not crucial to the debate!]

The Yamaha RX-V750 retails for AU$1400
In the UK the same box is GBP350 (~AU$850)
Un the USA its close to US$420 (~AU$600)

Why is this so???!!

I've read reviews from Americans talking about how its worth paying the extra $100 for features on the RX-V2500 but that particular box is priced at AU$2500 so whilst it may be worth paying US$100 extra for the better spec'd box, a differential of AU$1000 makes it a ridiculous proposition!

Why should Australians have to pay twice as much as Americans for their ASIAN manufactured gear? Its *almost* worth buying in the UK and getting stuff shipped (cant buy in USA 'due to the US's habit for non-adherence to international standards like voltage.. [which surely should make US gear MORE expensive not less?! ])

Can anyone offer me a reasonable and rational explanation of why this kind of price differential exists?



(FYI: I found a retailer the other side of Australia who did have a special and managed to persuade my local hifi dealer to price match so I've got the price down to AU$1150. Massive reduction but still nearly twice as much the US price!)
 
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It probably isn't the VAT; Australia comes over to me as a mini America. It could be that because America is a bigger and more competitive market place, so they need to sell cheap there. The manufacturers sell to America in bulk at discount.

There is also the possibility that so long as Australians are willing to pay that kind of price then , there is no incentive to lower prices. Sneakers in the UK would not be �40-120 a pair if everybody was a skint flint non fashion conformist like me.
 
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Did a quick websearch and the same machine costs (cheapest price I could find) at least �485 in the Netherlands. That was just one dealer, the next lowest price was �649 for the same apparatus.
That's 337-451 pounds, or 820-1196 Ozzie Dollars.
And that's just about 200km from the UK, not 20.000 ...

Remember the UK also has a weird habit of not adhering to international standards for electrical plugs.

As to voltage, doesn't Japan use 110V at home?

I've been shopping for some new photogear myself, and notice much the same thing between the Netherlands and many other countries.
Size of the market is a large factor, plus over here the idea that importers have that they have to provide localised versions of almost everything (so specially printed boxes, manuals, etc.).
Add skyhigh salestax (even compared with the rest of the EU, and you're looking at massive differences in price.
Indeed it's so bad that I can almost fly to the US or Japan, buy the stuff there, fly back, pay taxes and import duties, and be cheaper off than buying the stuff at home (and if I were planning to buy say �5000 worth of stuff it WOULD be cheaper to do that).
 
Jeroen Wenting
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addition: it's not greedy stores either.
I've seen the wholesale price lists for Nikon equipment in 2 small, quality, camera stores. The lists were identical and the prices on them (which are the prices the store has to pay the importer, so without taxes or the store's markup) were higher than the retail prices in surrounding countries.
 
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Yes, Japan also uses the standard 110vac. Their problem is they use the odd non-standard 50hz instead of a more sensible 60hz.
 
Alan Wanwierd
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Yes, Japan also uses the standard 110vac. Their problem is they use the odd non-standard 50hz instead of a more sensible 60hz.



Sensible???

I'm not sure why one AC frequency should be any more sensible than any other! I may have gently teased about the US always inventing its own standards instead of sharing with ROW - but Actually I do appreciate that there are many standards across the world, each valid in its own way.

Mains supply Voltage usually falls into 1 of 2 camps 230-250V(UK, Europe, Australia, Asia, Africa) or 100-110V(US and it seems Japan!)

Frequency also varies between 50 and 60Hz aroudn the world but by FAR the most common standrad is the 240V 50Hz...


Discussion of power standards and handy colour coded map

Remember the UK also has a weird habit of not adhering to international standards for electrical plugs.

I dont care at all what shape the plug is on the end, its easy enough to cut it off and fit one that fits the sockets in your location. And anyway who says UK plugs arent standard? They fit all the outlets throughout Africa - so doesnt that make them an international standard?!



( oh dear - this seems to have degenerated into another international pissing contest! )


Someone smart in the IT industry once said, "The best thing about universal standards is theres so many different ones to chose from!"
 
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Adrian Wallace:
I'm not sure why one AC frequency should be any more sensible than any other!



Ever watched television at 25fps vs 30fps? Ugh! And yes, I can tell the difference. I have no doubt that this was the primary factor Edison or Tesla or whoever had in mind when 60 cycles was chosen as the standard.
 
Alan Wanwierd
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:


Ever watched television at 25fps vs 30fps? Ugh! And yes, I can tell the difference. I have no doubt that this was the primary factor Edison or Tesla or whoever had in mind when 60 cycles was chosen as the standard.



yeah yeah - so NTSC has a highly higher frame rate than PAL, With moderately modern TVs now being 100Hz models its not really so much of an issue is it? (and although NTSC has faster frames it has fewer lines - so you win some, lose some..)

Interestingly enough, US cinemas aparently have a frame rate of 24x2=48Hz as compared with the 25x2=50Hz in European ones....
 
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Adrian Wallace:
Interestingly enough, US cinemas aparently have a frame rate of 24x2=48Hz as compared with the 25x2=50Hz in European ones....



Film is different. There's not an electron gun painting interlaced fields on the screen so the lower frame rate is not really an issue. In any event, these days I'm watching a glorious 720 lines of progressively scanned goodness (or 1080 lines of interlaced goodness, but I prefer the 720p) when I can.

Like you, one of my next upgrades to my system (after a HiDef DirecTV w/ PVR) will likely be in the audio department, although I'm pretty happy with the Onkyo I have now. I'll probably make the switch when HDMI switching receivers become more affordable, which ilkely won't be for another couple years.

I've upgraded some components in my home theater setup lately, adding a new TV and an upconverting DVD player. The new upconverting DVD players, while not quite HiDef quality since they're only working off regular DVDs, still give a very nice picture. My current setup:

Sony KDF-55XS955 55" Rear Projection LCD
Panasonic DVD-S97S Upconverting DVD Player
SONY SAT-T60 DirecTV Receiver with TiVo
Onkyo TX-DS595 Receiver
Bose Acoustimass 5 (Rear) and Acoustimass 7 (Front and Center) speakers
Logitech Harmony 680 Universal Remote
XBox
Comcast Hi-Def cable for HDTV

Man I just love consumer electronics.
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Adrian Wallace:


Remember the UK also has a weird habit of not adhering to international standards for electrical plugs.

I dont care at all what shape the plug is on the end, its easy enough to cut it off and fit one that fits the sockets in your location. And anyway who says UK plugs arent standard? They fit all the outlets throughout Africa - so doesnt that make them an international standard?!



Just an imperial standard I'm afraid
 
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
Remember the UK also has a weird habit of not adhering to international standards for electrical plugs.



Now I know almost nothing about electronics, so maybe someone on here can enlighten me. In the UK our plugs have three pins, while in many other countries there are only two pins. The third pin in the UK is an earth. In my most uninformed of opinions, this seems to mean that UK plugs are safer then plugs with only two pins. If they are safer, why did other countries not also have an earth pin? Was it a deliberate decision based upon a flaw of an earth pin, or just a historical accident (similar to Britain's bizarre rail track width)?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that when changing components inside a computer in the US, people are advised to unplug the computer and wear a silly earth strap thing, where as in the UK they are advised to leave the computer plugged in (because of it's earth).
 
Jeroen Wenting
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I'm not talking about 2 or 3 pins.
European plugs can have metalic strips along the sides which contact with clamps in the socket and serve as ground. Both grounded and ungrounded plugs will fit in both grounded and ungrounded sockets (though of course only grounded plugs in grounded sockets will give a grounded connection).

Most of the world now can accept Europlugs, either native or through modifications to the existing sockets.
 
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
I seem to remember reading somewhere that when changing components inside a computer in the US, people are advised to unplug the computer and wear a silly earth strap thing, where as in the UK they are advised to leave the computer plugged in (because of it's earth).



In the US, plugs are either two or three pronged, with the third prong being ground. Computers are typically of the three prong variety. As anyone who has ever worked on electronics will tell you, wearing the grounding strap when working on these electronic devices is just good sense, just as unplugging them while working on them is even better sense.
 
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I belive the grounding strap isn't so much for safety, as it is to help prevent the wearer from accidentally accumulating a static charge and then zapping a fragile electric component with it. In terms of safety, you're usually safer if you're not grounded, as that means there's no easy way for a charged wire to discharge through you into the ground. But if you simply unplug the device, this becomes irrelevant, and the next concern is to avoid damaging the device with a static shock.
 
Alan Wanwierd
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
...Most of the world now can accept Europlugs, either native or through modifications to the existing sockets.



I do not believe this....

Try jamming one of your europlugs into an Australian socket... good luck!

according to the website linked to in my earlier post there are more than 13 different global standards for power sockets.. and as far as I can see perhaps 5 of them might be capable of accepting each others plugs...

of course when you say "modifications to existing sockets" if you mean ripping out the whole socket and putting in a new face-plate altogether then you are quite correct in the ANY plug can be used (including UK).
 
Jeroen Wenting
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but still the UK plug can't be used anywhere else because of its outlandish design
 
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Jeroen said..
"but still the UK plug can't be used anywhere else because of its outlandish design"

And the US plug cannot be used in India because of its outlandish design.

But to address Adrians original question, look on the brighside, consumer electronics have been historically more expensive in Australi by comparison with the UK, but eating and drinking (in and out) and putting a roof over your head has historically been (much) cheaper. Distance/size of market may be a factor.
 
Alan Wanwierd
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
but still the UK plug can't be used anywhere else because of its outlandish design



Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Malaysia, Singapore... to name the just places I've been to so far..... in fact of all the places I've holidayed in in the last 5 years the UK plug is by far the most common!! (certainly a whole lot more universal than our stupid Australian plugs that cant go ANYWHERE at all!
)..

of course if you never leave mainland Europe then your european plugs seem like the "worlds standard"... but get onto different continents and it all changes!
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Like I stated before: Just an imperial standard I'm afraid
 
Alan Wanwierd
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
Like I stated before: Just an imperial standard I'm afraid


What are you afraid of?

I dont see the difference... A British style plug and socket is no less universal than european plugs and neither design is any more objectively better than any other.

What exactly do you mean by "imperial"?
I thought "Imperial" was a term used to describe measurement standards that were originaly based on "natural" measures:
inch=thumb size
ft=foot length
yard=stride length
league=distance an amry can march in 'x' amount of time etc...
pint=?? nice amount to drink?
pound=weight of the average [something]??

by comparison a "metric" measure is one where units are all nicely divisible by 10s and interelated:
1km=1000m=100cm
10cmx10cmx10cm of water = 1kg = 1ltr etc etc etc..

European or British plug and socket designs are both equally arbitrary and are in no way "imperial" or "metric"... and since both designs have been widely taken up across various large parts of the globe I dont think either one can be described as "superior" in any way!
 
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