Rapist gets life

[Sonny Gill]

It took two years. I wonder if this is enough though.

New Delhi - Shanti Mukund Hospital rape case

[Manish Hatwalne]

There was some disucssion on NDTV yesterday night if rapist should be treated leniently if he offers to marry the victim/woman. Isn't that sick??? What about the humilation and trauma the girl goes through? As if this b****** is doing her a favor by offering to marry her. Hope he hets hung....

- Manish

[Sonny Gill]

Originally posted by Manish Kumar:

Isn't that sick??? What about the humilation and trauma the girl goes through? As if this b****** is doing her a favor by offering to marry her. Hope he hets hung....

- Manish

I agree, absolutely. It is sickening how rapes are treated in India.
A few days ago I was reading about the college girl who got raped in Bombay by a cop, and a leader of one of the prominent political parties (you know who I mean) was quoted as saying that it is the women's fault for wearing provocative clothes, and being out there on the beach. Amit Verma (the blog I linked to) has a few posts on that.

A few months ago, here in Malaysia, a minister publicily made a comment to the effect that if you are being raped and cant stop it, you might as well lie there and try to enjoy it. Why do people accept these kind of a**holes as resepectable and as leaders.

This one got life sentence. May be they should gouge one of his eyes out first, and then make him serve the life sentence. The old adage of An Eye for An Eye seems to make sense sometimes.

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

{
Why do people accept these kind of a**holes as resepectable and as leaders.
}
About that Mumbai girl,if you ask many people(INCLUDING WOMEN) they will say that girl should have weared "descent" clothes.

[Sonny Gill]

Originally posted by Arjunkumar Shastry:
{
Why do people accept these kind of a**holes as resepectable and as leaders.
}
About that Mumbai girl,if you ask many people(INCLUDING WOMEN) they will say that girl should have weared "descent" clothes.

And what exactly was she wearing that was so indecent that it rationalized her rape? And what should the nurse who got raped have done - Wear a chastity belt and veil over her face?

Of course many people(including women) said that. Many people(including women) also ask for dowry, burn brides, do not take action against child abusers to save family honour...

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Arjunkumar Shastry:
{
Why do people accept these kind of a**holes as resepectable and as leaders.
}
About that Mumbai girl,if you ask many people(INCLUDING WOMEN) they will say that girl should have weared "descent" clothes.

I beg your pardon ...

even if I am nude, it does not give you right to rape me... this example is extreme but how can a dress make some one to rape other.

Its something like that there are people living and supporting Israel.. does it make the existence of Israel justifiable ?? For some it would ... for majority it wont.. or for miniority it wont ..

The whole point is that, what is wrong is wrong. One cant jusitify ones wrong deeds on basis of some foolish arguments.

There are things that can not be justified and rape is one of them... once murder may have justification but atleast in my court there is only one punishment.. hang till death like it was in the case of .. calcutta school girl... (I forgot the name of accused)

OR Zingey laala hurr hurr till death [I hate myself when I can joke even the matter is serious].. but its not a joke .. he should be killed the way I am joking ... :-|

I remember at the time of calcuttal case, TV news channel were trying to get some emotional support for the criminal .. but even at that time I had only one punishmen.. death.
[ May 05, 2005: Message edited by: R K Singh ]

[Pradeep bhatt]

I remember at the time of calcuttal case, TV news channel were trying to get some emotional support for the criminal .. but even at that time I had only one punishmen.. death

The accused said they he would have been given the hung sentence if he were rich. :roll:

[soumya ravindranath]

Isn't lifetime imprisonment much better a punishment than death ? The former must be more torturous.

[Dave Lenton]

Originally posted by soumya ravindranath:
Isn't lifetime imprisonment much better a punishment than death ? The former must be more torturous.

I'd imagine that life in prison (as long as the prison is not one of those dodgy ones with cable etc) would be a lot more of a punishment then death. More importantly, what if the trial got it wrong? What if three years down the line they realised that a person convicted of a crime was actually innocent. If he/she had been executed, then it would be too late. At least people can be released from prison in the case of a mistake.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by soumya ravindranath:
Isn't lifetime imprisonment much better a punishment than death ? The former must be more torturous.

true .. but death is more tortures than life [specially last few moments].. I fear death :-| that is equivalent to 7 life imprisonment.

Life gives you hope.

There should be no hope for rapist.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
What if three years down the line they realised that a person convicted of a crime was actually innocent.

Talking hypothetically ...

We are not discussing any unsolved mystry like Jack the Ripper.. but we are talking about rapist... where victim is alive and present.[atleast in this case]
[ May 05, 2005: Message edited by: R K Singh ]

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

Originally posted by R K Singh:

even if I am nude, it does not give you right to rape me... this example is extreme but how can a dress make some one to rape other.

Correct.I am not justfying their opinion but our society consists of many people of that view.

calcutta school girl... (I forgot the name of accused)

AFAIR his last name was Chatterjee.Yes,there were few grops of people who urged President to cancel the deaht sentence.He did not.Chatterjee commited two crimes:rape and murder.

[Manish Hatwalne]

In thsi case rapist should be killed...same applies to that co p called More who raped 17 yera girl who was out with 2 of her friends on marine lines, wearing what a teenager of her age in 'bay would wear. Remember, she was with 2 frieds -- boys, so it's no that she was having sth with boyfriend and in any case, as R K Singh said -- nothing justifies rape.

But speaking heoretically, I am agaist "death sentense" for a rapist, I do know crime is gruesome; but if the rapist knows that death is the penalty, would he spare the victim??? What we need is to give hope and assurance to the victim that life's not yet over...and she should be still able to lead a normal life -- treaing this as an unfortunate accident in her life...diffcult in a society when ppl accuse her of her dress n all!!!

Depressing....can't take more. I better fight with Sify!!!

- Manish

[fred rosenberger]

There are documented cases here in the U.S. where 5, 10 and even 20 years after a conviction, a 'rapist' has been found innocent because of new DNA evidence. if they had executed him all those years ago, what do they do now? just say "oops, he was innocent, but since he's DEAD now, we're sorry"???

I don't know any of the details of the case you're discussing here, nor anything about the Indian judiciary system, but i do know you have to be careful, and not rush to judgement.

[Dave Lenton]

Originally posted by R K Singh:


Talking hypothetically ...

We are not discussing any unsolved mystry like Jack the Ripper.. but we are talking about rapist... where victim is alive and present.[atleast in this case]

[ May 05, 2005: Message edited by: R K Singh ]

OK, so the theory here is that if we are really really sure then we can execute people, but if we are less sure then we shouldn't?

The problem here is where to draw the line. Do you execute people when you are 100% sure of their guilt, but just imprison them when you are 90% sure of their guilt? Should people even be found guilty if you are only 90% sure of their guilt? Most judicial systems have the idea that people should not be convicted unless they are found guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". This demands a fairly high level of proof.

Many times in the past people have been found guilty by juries who, if asked now, would say "I was 100% sure he was guilty", but have later on been found innocent.

[Manish Hatwalne]

In case of mumbai incident, this cop caled More came out - said he raped the girl and said "Ukhaad lo jo ukhaad sakte ho" (Do whatever you can, I raped the girl)

She was just 17, and 17 here is much different from 17 in US.

Kill him with blunt knife so that it pains more....

- Manish

[Adeel Ansari]

We have all the laws with us. But nobody listens actually. So, bear the pain. One day all will know, but it might be too late for someone.

Wearing provocative cloths is the reason but not the only reason. Rapists must be punished on the round about. And womans please do care of your body, its not for show. You are not an object, but taken as an object all the way.

May Allah bless us with all his mercy.

[Adeel Ansari]

By the way, its not something meaningless or stupid. Why this is here.

[Ben Souther]

I think it is a grave mistake to combine the discussion of what a woman wears or how she carries herself with a discussion about rape. You can not do so without somehow implying (at some level) that the victim is partially to blame.

How women dress and what is considered provocative varies from culture to culture. Rape in any culture is a crime.

If a parking attendant and a bank teller were each robbed of the same amount
of money, would we consider robbing the parking attendant to be a lesser crime because the attendant was carrying the money with him, in plain view, outside the building, where everyone can see it, tempting the robber, and thus playing on his lust for money?

If a man were raped in prison, I don't think "what he was wearing at the time" would ever enter into the discussion -- nor should it.

[Ben Souther]

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
By the way, its not something meaningless or stupid. Why this is here.

I agree. This is anything but 'meaningless'.

[Adeel Ansari]

Originally posted by Ben Souther:
If a man were raped in prison, I don't think "what he was wearing at the time" would ever enter into the discussion -- nor should it.

Agreed strongly. But in this case she is not in prison.

Assume you are going out some where. Wouldn't you lock the doors. If the doors are locked and even then robbery happened. Then its fine absolutely not your fault. If the doors are not closed, you forgot to do that or you just didnt care. Then after robbery you must be asked, Please do care in future always lock the door while going out. or something like, You should have locked all the doors mate.

Wouldn't we carry the precious things carefully? because not all people are nice in this world.

Whenever we need to give someone a heavy amount we use bank transfer or somethings like that? We dont just put the whole cash in our suitcase to handover the person. It means we care.

If you did your homework completely and even then you experienced something bad. Then, surely, its not at all your fault.

Assume somebody quit smoking then its good not to smoke in front of him or better not to show a cigarette to him even. Because he knows the taste smoking. It would be difficult for him to control.

A woman in less cloths admires a man. Its natural and fact.

I am not at all saying that rapists are innocent. As i said earlier, "They should be killed by stones on the round about". I hate rapists the most.

[Angela Poynton]

Agreed this subject is anything but meaningless, but since so far it has been an interesting and intelligent debate we'll leave it alone. If it starts getting at all nasty it's being trashed.
So you guys know the drill. No personal/provocotive comments, stick to the facts and make sure you don't present your own personal opinion as a fact and we'll be ok!

[Ben Souther]

My point was that the two do not belong in the same conversation.

Yes, I should lock my doors when I leave my house
But.. do not ask me if my house was locked when discussing what to do about a stranger who walked in and stole my TV. It's irrelevant. To do so is to move the discussion away from the central issue at hand -- "Someone went into my house and took something that belonged to me."

Not locking my doors was not an invitation to come in and take what is mine.

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:


Assume you are going out some where. Wouldn't you lock the doors. If the doors are locked and even then robbery happened. Then its fine absolutely not your fault. If the doors are not closed, you forgot to do that or you just didnt care. Then after robbery you must be asked, Please do care in future always lock the door while going out. or something like, You should have locked all the doors mate.

To work with this analogy:

The question is, SHOULD you HAVE to lock up your house?

The answer, of course not, you SHOULD be able to rely on human kindness and honesty. The fact is, you can't do that because some people are not kind and not honest and as such we lock up our houses out of fear.

However, even if you locked up your house, a truly bad person who really wanted something from your house would FIND a way to get it. I believe the same goes for women and what they wear. I question why a woman should have to dress out of fear? And if she did, would it really make a difference? A man who really wanted to rape her would rape her irrespective of what she wore. Also, let's not forget it's not only women who can be raped and it's not only men who rape.

A woman in less cloths admires a man. Its natural and fact.

I'm making an assumption here that may be wrong. But as I understand it you are saying that a woman who is dressed in what could be perceived as a provocative manner is doing so in order to attract men. Am I right?

If so, I have to say that is a HUGE assumption.
Firstly, I'd like to know what kind of dress is considered to be provocative. Are we talking bikini here or simply a skirt that sits just above the knee, or a top that allows a little cleavage to be shown? Where is the line drawn?

Secondly, can a woman not dress to please herself? I do. I have a wonderful boyfriend who I love very much but I rarely even think for a second about what he or any other man will think when I'm chosing what to wear. I dress in what I think I look good in. I have a large bust, it's difficult for me to find a top that DOESN'T show cleavage. It's not a conscious decision to show it, it's just how it is.

[Adeel Ansari]

Originally posted by Ben Souther:
Not locking my doors was not an invitation to come in and take what is mine.

Yes ofcourse not. Take my cigarette example.

Both topics are related to eachother to some extent. Just like if somebody has pain in his leg and you come and hit hard on his leg. It is the same if a buddy is sick minded and desperate to have sex, in this case a girl with less cloths would affect same like a hit. A rape comes out as a result. However, nobody, no science can give her virginity back to her. So isn't it better to do care.

I really cant bear if somebody stare to my fioncee, sister, or any woman. So, fighting with all the guys who stare at them is a cure. No, I think its better to tell our women not to show their body and practice nice cloths.

where
nice cloths = A dress by which whole body can be covered in a nice manner and a bit loose.
[ May 06, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]

[Adeel Ansari]

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
Secondly, can a woman not dress to please herself? I do. I have a wonderful boyfriend who I love very much but I rarely even think for a second about what he or any other man will think when I'm chosing what to wear. I dress in what I think I look good in.

You shouldn't wear those provocative dresses in front of all greedy peoples out there. ofcourse please yourself, your boyfriend/husband. Its a good to wear attractive cloths for your husband.

The answer, of course not, you SHOULD be able to rely on human kindness and honesty.

Yes. But As i said earlier, "Not all people are nice in this world".
[ May 06, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]

[Adeel Ansari]

http://www.islamfortoday.com/donninghijab.htm

Its a link to give you my point, not my point but truth. Hope someone will understand.

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

{
nice cloths = A dress by which whole body can be covered in a nice manner and a bit loose.
}
What if few people get 'aroused' by watching women in nice clothes?Whom to blame in that case?The men who advised women to wear nice clothes? or rapists?

[Manish Hatwalne]

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/donninghijab.htm

Its a link to give you my point, not my point but truth. Hope someone will understand.

Guess truth is always multidimentional. So ....
It depends on where u r coming from....can't say anything more tahn that. For me a girl in shorts is fine, for someone in UP it may not be.

- Manish

[Varun Khanna]

Would love to see stats over the number of rapes in a country where women normally wear dresses which reveals almost nothing but eyes.

I am not sure if rape has anything to do with the dress of female. I believe there isn't any global definition of "Provoative dress". One may label women in bikini as provocative wheras others may find fully clad women as provocative.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Wearing provocative cloths is the reason but not the only reason.

Seriously, what is the definition of provocative cloths ??

Is not having Parda is provocative ?
Or wearing Sari in Ulta Palla is provocative ?
Or wearing sleveless blouse is provocative ?
Or wearing jeans is provocative ?
Or wearing Salwar-suit is provocative ?
Or wearing skirt is provocative ?
Or wearing mini-skirt is provocative ?
Or wearing T-shirt is provocative ?
Or wearing low-neck T-shirt is provocative ?

Or better why a women should go out ??

I find even her silhouette to be provocative.

What we used to say(among friends), and in which I believe still, if one wants to eve-tease then it does not matter what girl is wearing.

But that was young, rowdy, bullies days.. now when I see young people doing the same thing what I used to do.. I just want to slap them and sometimes I laugh at myself.

I think by definition, having sex without the consent of other partner is rape. It should not matter and it does not matter what other person was wearing or what was his/her body language.

These are bull$%&* excuses given by those M#$%&F^%&*^&* rapist.
[ May 06, 2005: Message edited by: R K Singh ]

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
Wouldn't you lock the doors.

If door is open, I personally think, no person would steal anything from a house just because its unlocked, unless and untill he is a robber/burglar.

Can you steal something just because its unattended by someone ??

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Adeel Ansari:
However, nobody, no science can give her virginity back to her.

Rape has nothing to do with virginity.

It is the same if a buddy is sick minded and desperate to have sex, in this case a girl with less cloths would affect same like a hit.
Hey... are you trying to say that I should not eat my food outside, say on beach, because there MAY BE someone who is hungry and will take away my food.

Someone being hungry, should not take away my right to have food outside.

The only way, they can be stoped by giving them hardest punishment... say hang till death. OR as few of us suggested life imprisonment. But the problem is with life imprisonment is that one is still alive.

My whole point is that one should not blame a victim for the cause of rape.

[Varun Khanna]

Originally posted by R K Singh:
[QB]
[QB]

Change in timezone or having a long Friday night?

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Varun Khanna:

Change in timezone or having a long Friday night?

Going for Friday night

[Adeel Ansari]

Have you people seen that movie "40 days 40 nights".

The guy, Josh, took a vow that he is not going to do any kind of sex for 40 days.

Why he just threw out all that vulgar/adult magazine? Because he can not control if keep on facing those kinda nude girls pics in front of him.

Why that girl, his colleague, tried to tease him by showing him her ass and give him a xerox of it? because she knows it can be affective and she might be successful in breaking his vow.

Why he packed all the blue films and threw that in the store? becuase he knows he has to get rid of all those in order to control.

Why people, who masturbate, need to have some pornographic contents in front of them or need to watch some blue film? Because they have a nice pleasure and they dont need to imagine all that. They are having all that in front of them.

Why drug selling is not good? Let them sell. Actually you just cant blame only drug addicts. You have to control the availablity.

Why you need a nude girl in woman fragrance commercial? Why nude?

Why you need a lady lying on the mattress in a mattress commercial? Why not a gentleman

Why you need a lady in cell phone advertisement? Why you need to her boobs viberating to show the real power of a mobile phone vibrator?

May be you people think that its all off topic but its not. Its some how realted. These are some reasons/facts behind my whole debate. I think thats all I can say.

May be I am not clear enough or have the ability to convey my message to you people. Or may be you people are not willing to understand. But I have shown the way, perhaps any of you will find me right and try to understand all the truth and get success here and hereafter.
[ May 07, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]

[Adeel Ansari]

Originally posted by Arjunkumar Shastry:
{
nice cloths = A dress by which whole body can be covered in a nice manner and a bit loose.
}
What if few people get 'aroused' by watching women in nice clothes?Whom to blame in that case?The men who advised women to wear nice clothes? or rapists?

Ofcourse rapists. I said earlier that they are not at all innocent. Moreover I said, "They must be killed on the round about by stones".

[Adeel Ansari]

Originally posted by R K Singh:
[QB]
Hey... are you trying to say that I should not eat my food outside, say on beach, because there MAY BE someone who is hungry and will take away my food.

Yes ofcourse. Its better to give him an invitation prior to that. When I take my food outside, I almost always used to invite all the guys around, "ANybody wants to join me". This is what I learnt.

[Adeel Ansari]

Originally posted by R K Singh:
If door is open, I personally think, no person would steal anything from a house just because its unlocked, unless and untill he is a robber/burglar.

Can you steal something just because its unattended by someone ??

I said earlier, "Not everyone is nice in this world ".
Why we have cops? because some people are not nice.

I read a quote somewhere in a chinese magazine I guess that was, "If you want peace, be ready to war. Because not everybody in this world want peace."

[Adeel Ansari]

Have you people heard of this definition of Presentation.

"Presentation is like a woman skirt. Should be huge enough to cover the subject, and short enough to create the interest."

Its a good definition, I think. But dont you people think, its a misbehave. Why woman? May be this definition is from a man. Or man in shorts doesn't create the interest. Women are always objectified.

If keep on creating interest by wearing short skirt then heavyheartedly you have to bear all these pains. Because its you, who makes him interested. And then you used to say like "I am not that kind of girl". Not everybody can control himself. Therefore, I used to say, "Extreme beauty must be covered". Because everyone wants it. And here beauty itself has a heart, she is not an object, she has her own feelings, her own wants. She is not an object that anybody can snatch, or use.

Although, I am not with the rapists. I am not at all at their side . Please consider my whole debate not only this post, then you will know I'm not encouraging rapists. My point is we need to accept the nature.

Well, i'm off from this topic. It might get offensive further and affect our good relationships. Ranch is a nice, friendly society of people from all over the world. One might get my point, one might not, or one might get after some thinking. Love you all.
[ May 07, 2005: Message edited by: Adeel Ansari ]