What is your hike % this year?

[mani vannan]

Hello,

Almost all IT companies are suffering from economy crisis and a lot of them issued ping slips to employees. Annual hike has became a tough cake, most of the people I've known have got single digit(%) hike, including me This is really bittering, as we have been getting hike in two digits for last few years.

How about yours?
[ November 14, 2008: Message edited by: mani vannan ]

[Ulf Dittmer]

Yes, receiving a pay increase is really bitter. :roll:

[Abhijit Kumar]

Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
Yes, receiving a pay increase is really bitter. :roll:

Seeing single digit hikes all around...for which people are grateful as it's better than a salary cut or worse job loss.

[mani vannan]

Abhijit, well said

[mani vannan]

And, no response from others?

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by mani vannan:
This is really bittering, as we have been getting hike in two digits for last few years.

You haven't been working in my part of the world. They lay you off every two years or so and the next job offers less. I dropped 12% one one stretch.

Now THAT's bittering!

[Henry Wong]

Yea... the conditions are pretty bad right now. I am sure there are many large companies that are still getting raises (albeit small). But in startups, none of my friends have seen any raises in the last few years -- we are all happy if we don't get lay-off'ed.

Personally, I would probably prefer to take a pay-cut than to see some of my friends / colleagues gone -- but that probably doesn't work well, as this would probably cause attrition among the best people, which is something that startups don't want to happen.

(BTW, my sampling of people at startups is really small, so can't be used to draw any conclusions)

Henry

[mani vannan]

Originally posted by Tim Holloway:


You haven't been working in my part of the world. They lay you off every two years or so and the next job offers less. I dropped 12% one one stretch.

Now THAT's bittering!

Really bittering Tim!

In India, Software Jobs have been so hot, as they paid off like anything in this decade. Deliberately people jump companies here, to get better packages. I switched my job twice in last three years (for personal reasons), and I've got 385% hike by the two switches. Even, my friends have got more. So, single-digit hike or no-hike would be a great shock to Indian software developers!

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by mani vannan:


Really bittering Tim!

In India, Software Jobs have been so hot, as they paid off like anything in this decade. Deliberately people jump companies here, to get better packages. I switched my job twice in last three years (for personal reasons), and I've got 385% hike by the two switches. Even, my friends have got more. So, single-digit hike or no-hike would be a great shock to Indian software developers!

Two comments....

If you went up 385% over two job hops then you were either grossly underpaid and need to learn to negotiate better or you're grossly overpaid and may be in for a surprise.

Speaking of surprises, double digit growth rates are not maintainable... either in your own salary increases, in GDP growth, or in the stock market. If you bank on such growth you're going to wind up in trouble.

--Mark

[Kalyan Anand]

mani vannan - As Mark rightly said a hike of 385% is very rare and you probably were underpaid before.

To learn how the current market pays... as your friends got more than you... can you tell me how much your friends have been drawing with how much experience ?

If you are comfortable how much hike you got in your previous jump and how many month back was that... because these days I don't think many companies are offering high packages ?

[Henry Wong]

Hey, I got almost a 385% pay increase over 2 job hops (over 3 jobs) too !!... Of course, my three jobs spans a period of almost 20 years...

Henry

[mani vannan]

Mark Herschberg,
I was not underpaid though. May be I might be overpaid or might be paid higher in sync with drastically growing Indian software market demand.Two of the recent employers I jumped are big employers.

Santhosh Jali,
Actually, me and one of my friends are the most paid in our friends circle.Not all of my friends have got this much hike. Fyi, my friend was working in Yahoo and then was working in Amazon. I was workin in Oracle recently and now working in similar internet company (dont want to disclose the name).

Henry Wong,
Thats reasonable growth. I think this vertical pay hike goes only in India.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by mani vannan:
Mark Herschberg,
I was not underpaid though. May be I might be overpaid or might be paid higher in sync with drastically growing Indian software market demand.Two of the recent employers I jumped are big employers.

I can't speak to the first two, but it can't be the third--or if it is India is in trouble. 200% growth over 5 years is not sustainable in the long term and suggests a bubble. 385% over some number of years (I'm guessing around 5 years more or less).

I'd start saving my income expecting a readjustment.

--Mark

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
and suggests a bubble.

Or inflation. A search wage inflation returns some interesting results including one predicting a few more years of it.

Regardless, I agree with Mark that one shouldn't assume future increases are coming and save appropriately.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Jeanne Boyarsky:

Or inflation.

When you see annual inflation above about 20-30% (and it sounds like his annual salary increases are higher than this), you approach hyperinflation which is even more destabilizing than a bubble. Hyperinflation means it's time consider alternatives to the currency.

Of course, according to the article India's inflation rate is 15% So over about 5 years that's around 100%; even accounting for increased in responsibility (i.e. pay grade) that's still a warning bell in my mind.

--Mark

[Henry Wong]

I don't know if this is related... but a friend, who used to run an offshoring division, told me this... (also, this is one person's view, so take with a grain of salt)


India salaries seemed to be tiered. The lower tier is where all the offshoring savings supposed to come from. The work is commodity work. It is generally for lower priority projects. etc. etc.

The upper tier salary is only slightly lower than in the states. The project was offshored, less because it was to save money, but more because it was difficult to find the right talent.


So... maybe the salary bump was caused because it was a jump from one tier to the other. After all, the salary bumps were from job changes.

Henry

[Don Stadler]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


When you see annual inflation above about 20-30% (and it sounds like his annual salary increases are higher than this), you approach hyperinflation which is even more destabilizing than a bubble. Hyperinflation means it's time consider alternatives to the currency.

Of course, according to the article India's inflation rate is 15% So over about 5 years that's around 100%; even accounting for increased in responsibility (i.e. pay grade) that's still a warning bell in my mind.

--Mark

I'm not sure what the time frame on this is, but I think a lot depends upon where he started. When the outsourcing started one could hire a competent Indian guy for about $2500 a year and a guru for maybe $5000. That was a long time ago, but I could easily see how an Indian guy who started at $2500 and became good could have gone to as much as $100K over 12 years, as salaries rose to a large multiple of salary levels in the US or the UK.

I experienced something similar during the first years of my career in the US. I landed my first job during the depths of the 1982 depression and the pay was incredibly low. It doubled after 2 years, and almost doubled again after another 2 years. It's much slower now of course...

The other thing is that it can take time until you really grok something. I started as a C hacker, and an inexperienced C hacker is pretty worthless until he learns his craft and ceases scattering wild pointers about the code base, learns a bit of design (no more 300-line functions), etc. So even at that low rate of pay I might have been overpaid!

Apart from these observations, yes you are absolutely correct. Except for the geniuses or some architects I think that western salaries form a kind of ceiling on Indian pay rises. Why would you outsource to India when the skills can be sourced closer to headquarters?
[ November 16, 2008: Message edited by: Don Stadler ]

[Kalyan Anand]

mani vannan I donot know whether you should compare it with overall percentage... what I mean is if you were drawing say 2.5 Lakhs PA in first job and moved to the second company with an offer of 7.5 lakhs and later moved to company 3 with an offer of 9.6 Lakhs then that points to 385% pay rise. Though you were paid as per the market standard in your first company perhaps the second and third companies are product companies which should have to pay better to attract talent... now that doesnt mean you are overpaid... you will have to calculate the %hike between company2 and company3.. is that greater than 30 or 40% ?

Compare yourself with someone having salary+onsite in the longrun he will have better savings compared to you... do you disagree

what is the best pay package in your friend circle and for how many years of experience ?
[ November 17, 2008: Message edited by: Santhosh Jali ]

[Mark Herschberg]

Based on these last two posts it sounds like there is a huge labor arbitrage opportunity in India.

--Mark

[frank davis]

I got ZERO % raise this year. I work in state govt and many states are having budget issues now.

[Chen Venkat]

Yes the labor arbitrage is huge. In the last five years since I started out in software, I have seen an increase of 8 times from my first job.. I am in my third company... I wouldn't say that i am highly overpaid or so but it maybe around 90% percentile if you take a normal distribution among software guys with similar experience.. but still my salary is one third or less of what a big US product companies / investment banks tech division pay for the same work everyone does there (well I was in new york for couple of years with an investment bank's technology division too)...
So the labor arbitrage is huge in India

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Chen Venkat:
but still my salary is one third or less of what a big US product companies / investment banks tech division pay for the same work everyone does there...
So the labor arbitrage is huge in India

I think you're talking about the differential in labor costs between the US an India. I don't think there is much arbitrage opportunity, certainly not currently.

From the salary inflation in India, I think there is a huge pay disparity intra-nationally that can be arbitraged.

--Mark

[Srikanth Basa]

Manivannan - You have got a very decent pay rise in your jumps. Cogratulations for that

Though it is very difficult to get this kind of pay rise still there are people getting rises in the range you quoted (all depends on many things right from what the company and the department can afford, the way you market yourself, your skill sets and the urgency).

As you have been discussing here about the percentage of hike this year, I doubt if there would be anyone here above 30%, without job hopping and leaving those who were underpaid.

To add to this, in a few reputed companies where they were unable to give good hikes, they managed to keep their employees happy by means of promoting those who have been associated with the company for a good duration and have got a decent appraisal.
[ November 21, 2008: Message edited by: Srikanth Basavaraju ]

[Srikanth Basa]

...it sounds like there is a huge labor arbitrage opportunity in India.[/QB]

Well, the software engineers aren't considered as labor here. As far as the rest of the point is - Yes, absolutely !
[ November 21, 2008: Message edited by: Srikanth Basavaraju ]

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Srikanth Basavaraju:

Well, the software engineers aren't considered as labor here.

If they're not labor, what are they?

--Mark

[Srikanth Basa]

I meant that the Labor Law in India is not applicable to Software Engineers.

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Srikanth Basavaraju:
I meant that the Labor Law in India is not applicable to Software Engineers.

In US also, many times software developers will fall into a professional/management type category. In this category, standard labor rules regarding pay over 40 hours a week (overtime) do not apply.

[Pradeep bhatt]

I am getting single digit since many years.

[Kalyan Anand]

Originally posted by Prad Dip:
I am getting single digit since many years.

It is time for you to make a move which you haven't been doing since many years

[Ulf Dittmer]

Originally posted by Santhosh Jali:
It is time for you to make a move which you haven't been doing since many years

You're assuming that greater happiness lies in faster-rising salaries. That's a very limited view of employment, to say the least.

[Kalyan Anand]

Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:

You're assuming that greater happiness lies in faster-rising salaries. That's a very limited view of employment, to say the least.

If he was happy then his expression should have been or instead of