(SCJP 5 conquered......)
"I came I saw and I conquered"
Russy Dupee wrote:I would like to know how many recruitment agencies require you to complete a brainbench test before being considered for a possible position. My situation is that I hv just completed the SCJP certification and now I am asked to a Brainbench test. Have any of you done a brainbench test and how does it compare with a SCJP test. Your advice will be greatky appreciated.
arulk pillai wrote:I always like rigorous screening processes. When you have a good screening process, you can easily prove to your prospective employer that you are worth X dollars more than your competitor.
Often the most important part of the news is what they didn't tell.
Most of the other certs are at best indicators of theoretical knowledge and at worst rote memorization
The ultimate certification is a college degree, and the complaints about the worthlessness of a degree to indicate ability to do the job are legendary.
Have any of you done a brainbench test and how does it compare with a SCJP test. Your advice will be greatky appreciated.
aditee sharma wrote:
Now, I have made it a policy to run away as fast as I can whenever a recruiter asks me to take a Brainbench test. Its seems so pointless and a big drain on time.
Ah, it's only a medium drain on time. But fairly pointless, yes. Besides, as I told the recruiter, I've spent the last 2-1/2 decades doing doing things like mainframe OS-level programming, a commercial C++ compiler, published internationally in mainstream industry journals,etc, etc, etc. Not to mention worked with J2EE since before JSPs were invented (In My Day you young punks, all we had was Servlets. In the Snow. Uphill ...). But oh, no, I had to take the exam. The recruiter was cool, but the HR department lacked the initiative. Among other things, so I don't work there.
I should point out that possessing certs doesn't mean you don't have skills and talent, just that they're no guarantee that you do. And therein lies the problem. The very word "certified", means that someone is asserting a certain ability or accomplishment. If all you've accomplished is to demonstrate that you can answer questions under controlled circumstances, you really haven't shown whether or not you can do actual useful work. In the case of the RHCE, as I understand it, you're given about 4 hours to take an inert box and turn it into a functional enterprise server. That's just about what it commonly took me to bring up an OS/2 system back when I had to endure OS/2 (I'm better now, thank you). Linux I can do in about half that time - much of it spent waiting on the installer program. Providing I'm not throwing the kitchen sink at it. Which is why I respect the RHCE. Unfortunately, an equivalent task in programming takes months, and these days we've gotten away from the concept of guilds and master-pieces.
Far too many exam questions are on trivia whose real-world application is so infrequent I'd have to look up the details anyway (like fine-grained assertion controls), require you to dissect code processes so bad that in real life I'd find the original author and threaten to dissect him. Or worse yet, required a certain level of ignorance on my part, since a lot of solutions have more than one answer when you've accumulated knowledge of many different solutions. I really hate those. Buy yes, I know people with paper credentials who've produced some truly appalling stuff. Some of them have even paid me to help them do things that if their certs meant anything, they should have been able to handle themselves. That's not good.
Obviously there's a considerable difference between a college degree and a certification. A degree takes years to obtain and is supposed to reflect both extensive time gaining competence in the major subject as well as a well-rounded system of knowledge intended to ensure that the recipient is well-educated in general. Many - probably most - certs require little or no formal study and are narrowly focused. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned, innumerable complaints have been made that people fresh out of college are well-nigh useless in the IT profession and for that matter, that some even prefer to hire people with non-IT degrees and train the IT skills into them themselves.
The upshot of all this is that while pretty pieces of paper look nice on the wall, they're mostly limited as a definitive indicator of the ability of their holder to do useful work. This is unfortunate. There's more than enough garbage IT in the world at the moment, and when it comes from a supposedly accredited source that just further detracts from the credibility of the profession as a whole.
Often the most important part of the news is what they didn't tell.
. This is because different people with different college degrees and experience have been molded in different shapes so they have different abilities.But I'm willing to bet you will see a wide range of ability in people with the same certs.
Sandeep
aditee sharma wrote:
I beg to disagree on this one. I think the Sun Java certifications that I did have been eye openers so far, a great learning experience.
Most college degree does not have direct advantage in your job. But you will see Engineering degree holders are more successful in industry than regular degree holders it is because these years of education creates several abilitites in you.
Btw, I am a degree holder (Bachelor of Electronics), but I can hardly see a direct relation between what I studied in college to my day to day work as a programmer/designer.
Sandeep
Rajesh Thakare wrote:
Most college degree does not have direct advantage in your job. But you will see Engineering degree holders are more successful in industry than regular degree holders it is because these years of education creates several abilitites in you.
Often the most important part of the news is what they didn't tell.
Learning and understanding things is very usefull and certs may encourage you to do that. But I'm willing to bet you will see a wide range of ability in people with the same certs
Rajesh Thakare wrote:Most college degree does not have direct advantage in your job. But you will see Engineering degree holders are more successful in industry than regular degree holders it is because these years of education creates several abilitites in you.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Tim Holloway wrote:I don't mean to denigrate degrees in general. True, a Political Science degree is pretty much a joke - except in Washington D.C.. And degrees in fuzzy/impractical subjects such as 16-Century Welsh History may be of limited utility.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Sandeep
Empirically speaking, if a degree did not have a "direct advantage" why would companies require it? Nearly every software job requires an CS or related degree. (Yes, they may make exceptions, but it's widely required.)
Sandeep
Rajesh Thakare wrote:
By saying engineering graduates are more successful than regular degree holder, by no means I have any intention to offend anyone. But these are facts and we can not deny it. Regular degree holders may be more successful in other fields where engineering degree holders fails. But in IT, my opnion is engineering graduates are relatively far much for successful at least in India.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Mark Herschberg wrote: The fact that a particular industry prefers a degree is no indiciation of the relative success of the degree compared to others in general.
Sandeep
Rajesh Thakare wrote:Then what is indication of success ? We can not go and do survey from companies to companies and bring some figures. We have to rely on something. If I have company, I will hire only those people who can be successful on their jobs, because ultimately company's success is it's employees' success. And I will hire only those who can be successful and ultimately give me success.
If particular industry is hiring specific people, there should be reason behind it. And I see one of the reason is those specific people are relatively more successful in kind of business I am doing.
Rajesh Thakare wrote:
Mark Herschberg wrote: The fact that a particular industry prefers a degree is no indiciation of the relative success of the degree compared to others in general.
Then what is indication of success ?
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Sandeep
Rajesh Thakare wrote:Mark, I completely understand what you mean by success. But this discussion started with success on job success in softwares. I already said there are fields in which other degree holders are successful and engineering degree holder failed. So everything which I posted is with the assumption success is related to on job work in software excluding other fields.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
So if you want to say those with engineering degrees are more likely to be hired by the IT industry, fine, no one will contest that.
Sandeep
(SCJP 5 conquered......)
"I came I saw and I conquered"
Russy Dupee wrote:I do appreciate all the comments ,but I mainly wanted to discuss about Brainbench and their certifications and what am I in for. Easier or more difficult than SCJP. Why do recruiters trust Brainbench when I have SCJP to show that I have completed a difficult test.
Russy Dupee wrote:I do appreciate all the comments ,but I mainly wanted to discuss about Brainbench and their certifications and what am I in for. Easier or more difficult than SCJP. Why do recruiters trust Brainbench when I have SCJP to show that I have completed a difficult test.
Often the most important part of the news is what they didn't tell.
Rajesh Thakare wrote:I have been working with wide variety of people over the years. I have been overserving them for longer time. I have seen high percentage of people having certification but no real skills on project failing and I have seen high percentage of engineering graduates without any certification are successful. I am not saying this just for sake of arguments. I have actually seen it over several years.
Passing exam and working on project is different. You may find people who have skills to work on project and after doing certification their skills further improves. But basic need is skills to work on projects. Dealing with different challenges. Problem solving skills. Different kinds of reasoning. Well these skills are more helpful on the project.
There must be solid reason why Top IT companies in India always lookout for engineering graduates.
By saying engineering graduates are more successful than regular degree holder, by no means I have any intention to offend anyone. But these are facts and we can not deny it. Regular degree holders may be more successful in other fields where engineering degree holders fails. But in IT, my opnion is engineering graduates are relatively far much for successful at least in India.
In one of the company I know one certification every year was compuslory. So there were lot of certified people in the company. But all were not successful.
Employers not only gives importance to degrees but also gives importance to from which school/college/university you did your degree. Because it makes difference.
1. I really want to join the company and this exam is a part of their recruitment process.
2. I don't have a job or looking for one desperately (whatever be the reason) and I just have to go through it anyway.
I wouldn't give this exam for any other reason.