The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Ilja Preuss wrote:... The role of testers in an Agile team typically is helping the customer to define tests that the make sure that the system actually does *what the customer wants/needs it to do*. Those tests form kind of an executable specification for the system.
Christopher Palma wrote:
Ilja Preuss wrote:... The role of testers in an Agile team typically is helping the customer to define tests that the make sure that the system actually does *what the customer wants/needs it to do*. Those tests form kind of an executable specification for the system.
I understand, but I create these kind of tests using BDD (Behavior Driven Development), which tests the behavior of the system and are part of the "executable specification" of the system...
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Christopher Moura wrote:@Ilja Yes, my clients can read (and understand) my BDD tests cause they are almost plain sentences...
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Christopher Moura wrote:@Ilja Yes, my clients can read (and understand) my BDD tests cause they are almost plain sentences...
@Jeff I completely understand you point. The question is that my team doesn't have "fixed roles". My client is present (when possible) and work together with the designer, somethimes a programmer writes user stories, and so on. My team is not composed by functionally, but by quality...
We use BDD mostly to test "business behavior" and TDD to test everything else.
The question is that we always "Test First"... ;-)
Co-author, with Janet Gregory: Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams (Addison-Wesley, 2009) http://lisacrispin.com
Lisa Crispin wrote:
My team could probably get along ok without testers. But it would mean that the programmers spend a lot more time eliciting examples and requirements from the customers, and thinking about them from multiple viewpoints.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Ilja Preuss wrote:
Lisa Crispin wrote:
My team could probably get along ok without testers. But it would mean that the programmers spend a lot more time eliciting examples and requirements from the customers, and thinking about them from multiple viewpoints.
Mhh, somehow that sounds like a good thing to me... ;)
Co-author, with Janet Gregory: Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams (Addison-Wesley, 2009) http://lisacrispin.com
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
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