Ulf Dittmer wrote:
suggesting openoffice can be implemented in JavaFX
Ouch! If that ever turns out to come true then it's probably the final nail in the coffin of any aspirations OO might have had of competing with MS Office.
Can you tell us why you think this is so (coming from someone who knows little about JavaFX)?
If the application were customized heavily for each platform in order to take advantage of close OS integration, then the result might be worthwhile, but I don't see how changing its GUI to JavaFX could be anything but a step back.
Ulf Dittmer wrote:JavaFX makes a few more things possible, but it's mainly geared towards developers - it doesn't fundamentally change the user experience.
Have you seen any of the videos from JavaOne that show JavaFX, or read any of the blog the JafaFX team have posted?
It seems to me that JavaFX is squarely targeted on improving the user experience. In fact one of the BOF's was a meet the JavaFX user experience team session. I don't believe that a language can "fundamentally change the user experience" for the better, but I do believe it can make it easier for designers and developers to do so, and as someone who does care about user experience (a subject I spoke about at JavaOne last year) I can tell you that in my opinion JavaFX is making it easier for us to create better user experiences.
Sorry if this comes off as a rant, but I just don't get where you're coming from.
I do believe it can make it easier for designers and developers to do so
This actually sounds to me like we're in agreement that it's geared towards developers, not users, no?
in my opinion JavaFX is making it easier for us to create better user experiences.
Well, anything that makes it easier to write Java code in general can be interpreted as making the user experience better, since it's now easier to develop whatever user-oriented features developers didn't implement before because they seemed too hard. So that's not saying much IMO.
The important question is: what will developers use it for? Users couldn't care less whether an application is written in Java SE, JavaFX, C++, Assembler or whatever. They care about the overall experience, including startup time, OS integration, usability, features etc. So far, Java desktop apps have not been successful in delivering on that, and I don't see how JavaFX improves on that in a fundamental enough way to become successful, even with the help of a Java app store (and I certainly don't see how a JavaFX GUI will help OO).
Ulf Dittmer wrote:This actually sounds to me like we're in agreement that it's geared towards developers, not users, no?
I'm not sure what your point is. Can give me an example of a language that's geared toward users, so I can see where you're going with this?
Ulf Dittmer wrote:Well, anything that makes it easier to write Java code in general can be interpreted as making the user experience better
I disagree. Just because it's easier to write code doesn't mean that the code written will improve the user experience. It might just lead to a more complicated UI or more features that marketing wants but the user doesn't care about.
But JavaFX, and the tools that are being delivered with it, makes it easier to work with designers and create applications that are easy to understand and use; and that does benefit the user experience.
I'll ask you again, have you seen any of the demo's of JavaFX or the JavaFX tools from JavaOne. If not then please take a look at what JavaFX 1.2 is delivering before you unload another salvo. Tor Norbye's demo of the visual authoring tool, during the Toy Show on Friday, is particularly interesting.