[LEARNING bLOG] | [Freelance Web Designer] | [and "Rohan" is part of my surname]
Sagar Rohankar wrote:That's really a debated topic
Sagar Rohankar wrote: all we know that today's world is competitive and in order to have an edge, certification is must. For most of the potential employer, they will look for a certification if they had to cut off somewhere from bunch of CV's
Sagar Rohankar wrote:That's really a debated topic, but the ultimate truth is, there is NO harm if you have some good certificates under your belt which reflects your expertise in the given technology and all we know that today's world is competitive and in order to have an edge, certification is must. For most of the potential employer, they will look for a certification if they had to cut off somewhere from bunch of CV's.
Bu my story is different, I joined JR so that I can prepare for SCJp, but still one and half year passed and never thought of purchasing a SCJP coupon, but I surly wanna do it.
there is NO harm if you have some good certificates under your belt which reflects your expertise in the given technology
and all we know that today's world is competitive and in order to have an edge, certification is must.
Katrina Owen wrote:
Sagar Rohankar wrote: all we know that today's world is competitive and in order to have an edge, certification is must. For most of the potential employer, they will look for a certification if they had to cut off somewhere from bunch of CV's
I think it is much less clear cut than that. It depends on the culture at the company hiring. The company I work for doesn't use certifications to sift through resumes.
arulk pillai wrote: I have worked with many talented professionals, who are not certified at all. I also have worked certified professionals who do not really impress me. In some countries, certifications are more popular and well received than the other countries. If the interviews are comprehensive enough, it will be much easier to cut off on lot of other things than having to resort to certification alone. IMHO, it is naive to believe that certification alone will turn things around or give someone an edge.
[LEARNING bLOG] | [Freelance Web Designer] | [and "Rohan" is part of my surname]
Also I want to make one point clear, certification for fresh passed out graduates is must because that's definitely make your resume more impressive, especially during such bad phase of recessions and down sizing. So, if you had a 7 -8 years of experience in building an enterprise application in Java, no one ask you about your certificates, but the same case is NOT true for novice job seekers.
[LEARNING bLOG] | [Freelance Web Designer] | [and "Rohan" is part of my surname]
But, I couldn't get one thing, every one starts like "Having certified is good/certificates makes you no harm", and in next paragraph...
Ulf Dittmer wrote:
But, I couldn't get one thing, every one starts like "Having certified is good/certificates makes you no harm", and in next paragraph...
Those are quotes of your post, so that the reader knows what, specifically, the following reply text refers to.
That's debatable. There may be no harm from a prospective employer's point of view,
but if a certification counts for nothing, then there's an opportunity cost to the person taking the certification: She has spent time on it that she might more usefully have spent on other things - like working on projects that prove practical experience, as opposed to the theoretical experience that exams like the SCJP and SCWCD certify. (This will apparently change: Starting later this year, the theoretical exams will be phased out in favor for practical exams.)
[LEARNING bLOG] | [Freelance Web Designer] | [and "Rohan" is part of my surname]
Ulf Dittmer wrote:There may be no harm from a prospective employer's point of view, but if a certification counts for nothing, then there's an opportunity cost to the person taking the certification: She has spent time on it that she might more usefully have spent on other things - like working on projects that prove practical experience, as opposed to the theoretical experience that exams like the SCJP and SCWCD certifications.
[LEARNING bLOG] | [Freelance Web Designer] | [and "Rohan" is part of my surname]
Ulf Dittmer wrote:(This will apparently change: Starting later this year, the theoretical exams will be phased out in favor for practical exams.)
[OCP 17 book] | [OCP 11 book] | [OCA 8 book] [OCP 8 book] [Practice tests book] [Blog] [JavaRanch FAQ] [How To Ask Questions] [Book Promos]
Other Certs: SCEA Part 1, Part 2 & 3, Core Spring 3, TOGAF part 1 and part 2
SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote: A drawback of experience is sometimes we presume that we have enough knowledge, we are capable, but actually we're not. If we will rely on experience, we need to have mentors or study a lot from several books..
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote: And a benefit of examination is we will be evaluated by gurus/experts, that is the reason why formal study in schools/universities need to have examination, even Ph.D. requires examination, only having experience don't give us a real Ph.D.
[OCP 17 book] | [OCP 11 book] | [OCA 8 book] [OCP 8 book] [Practice tests book] [Blog] [JavaRanch FAQ] [How To Ask Questions] [Book Promos]
Other Certs: SCEA Part 1, Part 2 & 3, Core Spring 3, TOGAF part 1 and part 2
K. Tsang CEng MBCS PMP PMI-ACP OCMJEA OCPJP
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote: A drawback of experience is sometimes we presume that we have enough knowledge, we are capable, but actually we're not. If we will rely on experience, we need to have mentors or study a lot from several books..
I agree. I read the SCJP prep book and learned a lot. It was just the actual exam I didn't see the value of.
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote:
Useful examination, yes. However a multiple choice exam doesn't exactly grant this review. I get way more feedback from a code review.
SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
James Clark wrote:The ability to answer multiple choice questions and recite memorized technical facts is not a software development skill. If an individual does not have real skills and abilities, their certifications will not mean much.
SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
The secret of how to be miserable is to constantly expect things are going to happen the way that they are "supposed" to happen.
You can have faith, which carries the understanding that you may be disappointed. Then there's being a willfully-blind idiot, which virtually guarantees it.
Each certification has objectives, it evaluates only from the objectives. I agree with your last sentence, it's the same that bachelor/master/doctoral degree does not mean much if an individual does not have real skills and abilities.
Tim Holloway wrote:
I respect anyone who's made the effort to acquire formal credentials, but most of the credentials themselves are worth just about as much as if I'd created the certificate myself.
SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
The Passionate Programmer: Creating a Remarkable Career in Software Development
http://www.pragprog.com/titles/cfcar2/the-passionate-programmer
http://chadfowler.com
It's a known fault that you will certainly miss qualified candidates who are not certified but sometimes it's the best choice in a list of not very good choices for a hiring team.
James Clark wrote:
It's a known fault that you will certainly miss qualified candidates who are not certified but sometimes it's the best choice in a list of not very good choices for a hiring team.
This is an unacceptable process in my opinion and presents a significant risk to the organization. And, this type of talent acquistion typically is the root cause of failed IT projects.
The Passionate Programmer: Creating a Remarkable Career in Software Development
http://www.pragprog.com/titles/cfcar2/the-passionate-programmer
http://chadfowler.com
The Passionate Programmer: Creating a Remarkable Career in Software Development
http://www.pragprog.com/titles/cfcar2/the-passionate-programmer
http://chadfowler.com
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote:I thought I learned a lot from reading a book, but when I went to an exam, I realized that there are many things I didn't know, for me that is a value of taking actual exam.
[OCP 17 book] | [OCP 11 book] | [OCA 8 book] [OCP 8 book] [Practice tests book] [Blog] [JavaRanch FAQ] [How To Ask Questions] [Book Promos]
Other Certs: SCEA Part 1, Part 2 & 3, Core Spring 3, TOGAF part 1 and part 2
James Clark wrote:Good points.
Significantly and repeatedly "missing qualified candidates" is the problem that I associate with failed IT projects. Using certifications to "filter" candidates is not an efficient way to find the best candidate available, in my opinion. There are many other more intelligent ways to narrow down the bunch, without the risk.
Having a resume/applicant pool of 20,000 represents another issue, however. (Not appropriate for this thread though)
Some companies also increase salary if we have some certifications, is it good to get more salary? I cannot think of how it's not good .
SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I'm talking about the Kathy Sierra/Bert Bates SCJP book. It makes you think and has "real-style" exam questions throughout. Doing the questions is what made me learn. I considered it like taking an exam. They say their test is harder than the actual exam - and as exam creators, they would know!
SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote:It seems to me like somebody have mindset that whoever has certifications doesn't have any other knowledge, skills, abilities, and doesn't have any achievements except certifications. I feel like that, and don't understand why, it's not reasonable. If certified professionals don't have any achievements except their certs, do you think their company will not fire them?
Maybe because you have experience about incompetency certified professionals, but don't you have experience about incompetency and non-certified people? Or every certified guys you have worked with are all below average, and every non-certified guys you have worked with are all remarkable?
When I interview an applicant, I don't care about certifications, I know being certified doesn't mean competency automatically, but I don't think that certifications are bad. I they passed with their
When I go for an interview, I never mentioned about my certs, if the interviewers don't ask, in case they ask, our talk about this topic is quite short, we have more interesting things to discuss.
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:
Kengkaj Sathianpantarit wrote:I thought I learned a lot from reading a book, but when I went to an exam, I realized that there are many things I didn't know, for me that is a value of taking actual exam.
It's more than reading a book. I'm talking about the Kathy Sierra/Bert Bates SCJP book. It makes you think and has "real-style" exam questions throughout. Doing the questions is what made me learn. I considered it like taking an exam. They say their test is harder than the actual exam - and as exam creators, they would know!
arulk pillai wrote:
What I was trying to get across is that getting certified alone is not enough. Some have the misconception that if he/she gets certified, the career will be brighter from there onwards. There are other facets need to be looked at as well to promote one as a well rounded candidate.
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