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J2EE or .NET ? Question for Mr. Neal

 
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Do you cover the burning issue of the .NET menace and the supremacy of Java Web Development? I personally believe that this time MS has really made a daunting blow at the root of Java.
[ February 10, 2004: Message edited by: Salman K ]
[ February 10, 2004: Message edited by: Salman K ]
 
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HI, Yes almost copy all Java on it !!!
Intermediate MSIL conde is generating from the languages (J#,C#,VBNET,etc) e interpreted by the .Net Framework. All hierancy from System, etc etc
 
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Originally posted by Salman K:
Do you cover the burning issue of the .NET menace and the supremacy of Java Web Development? I personally believe that this time MS has really made a daunting blow at the root of Java.


No, I leave that battle for someone else (although I did suggest at one point that maybe we should etch a really subtle .NET onto the skull that my cannibal is holding).
I also don't think that .NET is any menance to Java except from a marketing standpoint. You can't really write good, clean Model 2 applications in ASP.NET. We build both kinds in my company, and, while you can get close, Java still reigns supreme for real web development (boy, I'm going out on a limb making this statement here, aren't I )
 
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As for Rapid Application Development, who has a leading edge? Java or .NET?
 
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Originally posted by David Attard:
As for Rapid Application Development, who has a leading edge? Java or .NET?


R u trying to compare the IDEs for them? There are a lot of Java IDEs out there in the market, such as WebSphere Studio, JBuilder X, Eclipse and so on... There are a lot out there for .Net, such as Visual Studio.Net, Borland C# Studio and so on(That's all I know for .Net developement) :roll:
In what context are you comparing RAD of Java IDEs and .Net ones?
 
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Hi Neal,
Is it true that tapestry resembles ASP.NET more than any other frameworks out there? If that is the case , and now that we hear that ASP.NET is amazingly productive, do you expect more people to use tapestry?
thanks
 
Salman Khattak
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Originally posted by Ko Ko Naing:

R u trying to compare the IDEs for them? There are a lot of Java IDEs out there in the market, such as WebSphere Studio, JBuilder X, Eclipse and so on... There are a lot out there for .Net, such as Visual Studio.Net, Borland C# Studio and so on(That's all I know for .Net developement) :roll:
In what context are you comparing RAD of Java IDEs and .Net ones?


Visual Studio is beyond doubt the tool of RAD and with its edge of desktop <b> AND</b> web development it is the choice tool for many. But it costs too much for a 'freelancer' to dabble with. The opensource world takes the lead when it comes to Java.
[ February 11, 2004: Message edited by: Salman K ]
 
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Originally posted by Salman K:
Visual Studio is beyond doubt the tool of RAD and with its edge of desktop <b> AND</b> web development it is the choice tool for many.


Visual Studio doesn't hold a candle to IntelliJ IDEA. I cringe everytime I have to use it and dream of better days. While its widgets and wizards may make writing small applications easy... they just don't scale as the applications get larger. Big surprise here... Visual Studio and .Net is no silver bullet. Microsoft/.Net Developers still have to face the same issues that Java/J2EE Developers face when it comes to design and development of large-scale applications. The truth of the matter is that writing large scalable Enterprise Applications is hard no matter what technology you happening to be using.
Logic aside... the whole Java vs. .Net thing is much more of a religious debate than anything else. I bet you can guess what religion I am...
[ February 11, 2004: Message edited by: Chris Mathews ]
 
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"Salman K",
Welcome to JavaRanch. We don't have too many rules here, but we do have a naming policy. Please edit your display name to comply with this policy. Specifically, an initial is not allowed as a last name. It should also be noted that unfortunately, users with improper display names are not eligible for the book giveaways. Thanks in advance, and we look forward to your continued contributions to the Ranch.
 
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Chris,
I think i can guess what religion you are I totally agree, that everyone believes .NET is so easy to produce out of the box, but when it comes down to it you have to do exactly the same things as you would with java. But with java you actually know what code is being used and how it works. With .NET you have to trust Microsoft to write the code for you. I don't know about any of you guys, but i'd rather know whats going then gain a few extra hours from letting a HUGE corporation write my code.
just my two bits
Dave
 
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Java vs .net dialogue belongs somewhere else. But the premise on which you donwplayed .net may not be agrreable to all. Much as java developers like to see the code behind the screen there may be a lot more people out there who like the extra time they get not having to code.

My two cents...

Vasu
"Just my two bits" is cute. I have never heard it before.
 
Ko Ko Naing
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Originally posted by Dave Knipp:
I totally agree, that everyone believes .NET is so easy to produce out of the box, but when it comes down to it you have to do exactly the same things as you would with java. But with java you actually know what code is being used and how it works.


I don't think Java products currently available in the market are difficult to produce out of the box... Many IDEs supports Struts, Velocity Templates and other frameworks... I do belive that there are many wizards available in the market which make the Java developers life easy as well...
I can say that Java Products in the current market are as great as .Net... I also hope you can guess what religion I am...
 
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J2EE v/s .NET
recently i searched on google to find out5 which is better. and i was surpised to find that .NET was rated far better than java in terms of performance.
here is the linkJ2EE vs .NET Performance Comparison
 
Chris Mathews
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Originally posted by Prakash Dwivedi:
J2EE v/s .NET
recently i searched on google to find out5 which is better. and i was surpised to find that .NET was rated far better than java in terms of performance.
here is the linkJ2EE vs .NET Performance Comparison


Don't believe everything thing you read on the Internet. The comparision you link to above is full of holes and controversy... not to mention that it was funded in part by Microsoft. See this article for more details.
Regardless, it is fully expected that .Net is going to be somewhat faster than Java when running on a Windows platform. .Net is written and optimized for Windows by the people that wrote Windows so of course they have the home field advantage. However, the difference in performance between .Net and Java is not so great that it is going to be a concern. I am certainly not losing sleep over it. Besides, let's take that benchmark and run it on Linux, or Solaris, or OS X... oh wait we can't.
Since when did performance become the number one concern anyways? When it comes down to it organizations do not choose a technology based solely on performance, otherwise we still be writing in Assembly. The choice is based on the whole package: market share, flexibility, ease of development, stability, etc. Performance usually ends up very low on that list.

Originally posted by vasu maj:
Java vs .net dialogue belongs somewhere else.


I agree, therefore I am going to request that this thread is moved...
[ February 12, 2004: Message edited by: Chris Mathews ]
 
Neal Ford
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Originally posted by karthik Guru:
Hi Neal,
Is it true that tapestry resembles ASP.NET more than any other frameworks out there? If that is the case , and now that we hear that ASP.NET is amazingly productive, do you expect more people to use tapestry?
thanks


It is NOT true that ASP.NET resembles Tapestry in any way! I develop in both, and they could not be farther appart. Tapestry is a very encapsulating framework (you don't even really know that your are writing a web application), that supports first class architecture and MVC. ASP.NET is much closer to a RAD development environment for web development. Of the ones I cover in my book, it is probably closest to JSP-only or InternetBeans Express than anything else.
 
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Originally posted by Salman K:
I personally believe that this time MS has really made a daunting blow at the root of Java.


I consider that a good thing. Kind of shook Java out of its complacent slumber.
The market always does better with competition. Nothing like a threat to its supremacy to make sure Java doesn't stagnate.
 
Salman Khattak
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I don't know where this discussion belongs. Maybe in meaningless drivel or somewhere?!
Lets leave it to a bartender to move it elsewhere, until then ...
I got this off of sun website, lets give it a Sun Spin
What Every Indian Developer Should Know About Java Technology
I quote from the above report:

There are already more than 150 million Java technology-enabled mobile handsets, more than 400 million Java Smart Cards in more than a dozen countries, and almost 275 million PCs running Java technology worldwide. In a May 2003 report, research firm Ovum estimated that by the start of 2004 there would be almost 267 million Java technology-enabled mobile devices and more than 1.5 billion by the end of 2007


With those kind of numbers, it is hard to see Java leave that easy
 
Dave Knipp
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I totally agree with Chris,
Seems like that speed comparison was catered towards Microsoft winning. Its also a good point that speed isnt the most important thing in the world of IT these days, because we all use these extremely high level languages that we have grown to love, Java, etc.
I guess this thread has really become the java vs. .net controversy after all
Dave
 
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