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Ankit Garg wrote:But a Chinese person can learn Japanese martial arts?
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Larry Chung wrote:
Ankit Garg wrote:But a Chinese person can learn Japanese martial arts?
So, anybody with even a little knowledge of Eastern Asian culture and history knows how wrong it is to use the term "black belts" in the caption.
On a broader level, the kung fu pictures in HFSJ does propagate a stereotype of Chinese (and probably Japanese) people similarly to how typical Indians are always depicted to be wearing a dastar.
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Paul Anil wrote:
That, I agree with. I hate it when they play Sitar everytime there is anything to do with India. Ah, even the wiki has it wrong when it writes, "The sitar is a plucked stringed instrument predominantly used in Hindustani classical music.
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Larry Chung wrote:A real black belt in karate will always humbly admit to being a lifelong student and not some kind of super master.
[...] propagates several misconceptions about the martial arts disciplines.
David Newton wrote:
As would any reasonable Six Sigma Black Belt, expert developer, etc. As ephemeral as a black belt is, or any other ranking system, it *does* serve to indicate as a progress indicator. It does *not* indicate an *end* to progress, as you point out--but most reasonable people don't believe that it does.
Some gongfu systems *do* award black sashes-...
If you think HFJS is insulting, you would have loved the amount of abuse I endured from some of my fellow less-friendly Chinese students as I "appropriated" their culture, fighting styles, and in one case, woman. Was I offended? No--why should I be? People can laugh at me because I'm an American, assume I swill bad beer, drive a monster truck, ...
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Bert Bates wrote:this is the first time we've heard ...
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Keith Flo wrote:
Also ... I applaud his courage. Its no small thing to take an unpopular position and tell (somewhat) famous subject matter experts like David Newton and Bert Bates and tell them they're wrong.
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Larry Chung wrote:
I am sure you meant no offense, of course. But your corollary is not complete. It should be as if a serious British newspaper or an Iranian propaganda movie depicted American culture with only takes from Abbot and Costello movies. It may not offend you but it could outrage some Americans. Americans caricaturing Americans, not so offensive. Other nationalities caricaturing Americans, different story.
The larger concern was the propagation of stereotypes, which is not to be confused with being offensive. So far, only Paul Anil expressed an understanding of what that means. Otherwise, I am shocked by the general lack of sensitivity.
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Ankit Garg wrote:I also played the game Hitman 2 and in that they had 2 stages in India. In one of the stage they had a mental asylum which looked like the Taj Mahal
But I'm not angry on them. This was just a mistake (or may be there is indeed a mental asylum looking like that in India) but I'm okay with it...
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Paul Anil wrote:What if the mental asylum looked like Akshardham, or a Church, Jama Masjid, or the Golden Temple? Would you be ok then? I, for one, would be offended for sure.
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Ankit Garg wrote:
Paul Anil wrote:What if the mental asylum looked like Akshardham, or a Church, Jama Masjid, or the Golden Temple? Would you be ok then? I, for one, would be offended for sure.
That would be another case (it is insult of a religion), but if we come to the original topic, Japanese martial arts is not a religion. I would not be offended if any person teaches Yoga wearing a stylish jeans, sunglasses and funky hair with gel. I actually enjoyed the whole martial arts theme of the HFSJ book...
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Rohan kanade wrote:hey larry, I run a RESTful service that serves Hitmen for special jobs.
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Paul Anil wrote:...I am not a person who is too sensitive to touch but I saw your post only a couple of days after I watched an episode of "Office" on TV and that really made me aware of how bad stereotyping can really be and that's why I commented on it. I was watching this episode with a friend who happens to be Mexican. In this particular episode, they were talking about the most important Indian festival of Diwali. After the show, he asked me if I was offended by it. Now, in the show they were mostly making fun of it, which I did not have a problem with but I was appalled by the misinformation provided by the show. Making fun of a true fact is one thing...but making a fictional story, attributing it to some one, and then making fun of it is just plain wrong. I could see the effect right away because my mexican friend, who had no idea about Diwali, now had a completely wrong idea about it. After separating out the mockery stuff from the show, he thought that Diwali was similar to halloween
...I am not sure how serious of a misinformation the juxtaposition of black belt with kung fu pictures is though. Since I found Diwali-Halloween misinformation to be quite serious, I can understand why one might feel this juxtaposition to be quite serious.
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Larry Chung wrote:Replacing references to "black belts" with "martial arts masters" will answer the original issue.
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Paul Anil wrote:I am not a person who is too sensitive to touch but I saw your post only a couple of days after I watched an episode of "Office" on TV and that really made me aware of how bad stereotyping can really be and that's why I commented on it. I was watching this episode with a friend who happens to be Mexican. In this particular episode, they were talking about the most important Indian festival of Diwali. After the show, he asked me if I was offended by it. Now, in the show they were mostly making fun of it, which I did not have a problem with but I was appalled by the misinformation provided by the show. Making fun of a true fact is one thing...but making a fictional story, attributing it to some one, and then making fun of it is just plain wrong. I could see the effect right away because my mexican friend, who had no idea about Diwali, now had a completely wrong idea about it. After separating out the mockery stuff from the show, he thought that Diwali was similar to halloween
David Newton wrote:While I'm glad that such a simple change will address the issues, I'm still confused.
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Bert Bates wrote:We will be happy to make those two changes next time we handle errata.
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David Newton wrote:... with Chinese reactions to typical stereotypes has been more of "Wow, I can't believe you thought that, that's hilarious" rather than actual offense--perhaps I've just been lucky in that regard over the past few decades.
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David Newton wrote:What part confused you? I'm describing the typical reactions I've seen to cultural stereotypes over the past few decades, none of which included actual offense. At least in non-China/Taiwan and non-China/Japan issues.
I'm not just surprised this caused offense in a vacuum--I have reasons I'm surprised that go beyond "I'm just a culturally ignorant American bereft of cultural sensitivity."
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Larry Chung wrote:I suggested perhaps "Wow, I can't believe you thought that, that's hilarious" can be interpreted as irony or sarcasm.
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Bert Bates wrote: I'll make another stab at a similar situation: Here we are in 2010 - would you ask a movie producer to not use a black man as the antagonist in his movie because of the horrible history of blacks in America?
A fella could die from being too politically correct. There's a point at which political correctness backfires.
Well, we're happy to make 'errata level' fixes, and I'm open to hearing what else concerns you, but I doubt we're going to make wholesale changes to the book. Let me explain why...
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