• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other Pie Elite all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Tim Cooke
  • Ron McLeod
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Henry Wong
  • Devaka Cooray
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • Al Hobbs
  • Carey Brown
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • Mikalai Zaikin
  • Himai Minh

Management is Science, Art or Collection of few cheap tricks?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 57
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I read this article. http://www.chrmglobal.com/Articles/180/1/Management--Art-or-Science-.html.

I see many people say you do not need formal education of management if you have experience. I do not agree with them. Is management is collection of few cheap tricks which can learned at job? or you need to understand management through formal education. I understand few people are born managers because they have this art and they use it very successfully.
 
author & internet detective
Posts: 41184
848
Eclipse IDE VI Editor Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Parag Pathak wrote:I see many people say you do not need formal education of management if you have experience. I do not agree with them.


I agree with them. I have met many good managers who never took a formal class in management. Any many who did. And many who took informal classes on good techniques to use.

Parag Pathak wrote:Is management is collection of few cheap tricks which can learned at job?


Of course not. But techniques (not tricks) are important too. And many are learned on the job.

Parag Pathak wrote:or you need to understand management through formal education.


The term formal seems out of place here. Yes, some people get an MBA. But the hands on part matters to.
 
author
Posts: 23923
142
jQuery Eclipse IDE Firefox Browser VI Editor C++ Chrome Java Linux Windows
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Since the term "art" was mentioned... There are managers out there who are better than the rest, who not only motivates their employees, but those employees truly love working for them. These managers establishes amazing loyality, to the point that people may even quit their job, take a paycut, and follow these managers to new jobs at their request. For these managers, it is considered an "art".

I don't agree with the term. I think it is called an "art" because people don't know the secret. I think I know the secret, the secret is that these managers truly care for their employees. They constantly try to understand them, to motivate them, to help them, and really trust them -- and they do it because they truly want to do it, not because it is some technique they learned or something in some formal training. In the end, they wind up with a team of the best people -- which as a team, seems to perform magic.

Henry
 
Parag Pathak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 57
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well said Henry. Agree with you.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2187
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Academic degrees at the gradudate level include learning management techniques and tools from many different sources. When an individual goes through this process and attains an advanced degree, it is easier for him/her to build the trust and respect as described in Henry's post above, especially if you are to manage other managers.

Is it possible to build trust and respect without an academic degree? Of course it is, however it depends upon the context. If you had to manage a team of master chefs and you never actually cooked anything and don't know the details of cooking, you will have a very hard time getting the chefs to respect you, and an even harder time to trust you.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 343
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jimmy Clark wrote:Academic degrees at the gradudate level include learning management techniques and tools from many different sources. When an individual goes through this process and attains an advanced degree, it is easier for him/her to build the trust and respect as described in Henry's post above, especially if you are to manage other managers.



Yet strangely enough, almost none of the managers I work with have degrees in the subject. And certainly none of the best managers I have had - in fact all of them had unrelated degrees, or no degree at all.

Is it possible to build trust and respect without an academic degree? Of course it is, however it depends upon the context. If you had to manage a team of master chefs and you never actually cooked anything and don't know the details of cooking, you will have a very hard time getting the chefs to respect you, and an even harder time to trust you.



Let me ask you the same question: if you had to manage a team of master chefs and had an academic degree in the subject but never cooked anything, how much respect would you expect?

Cheers!

Luke
 
Parag Pathak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 57
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think there are at least two levels(or may be more depends on company size) here. One is middle level management where manager directly coordinates with end workers, for example project manager with his/her team of developers, sales manager coordinates with sales executives, marketing managers with marketing executives etc. And another level is senior managers who interact with managers working under him/her. At middle level management, knowledge related to work area(for example marketing knowledge for marketing manager, technical knowledge for project managers) is important. At senior level, they require different skills where formal(or informal) management education is helpful.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 144
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator


Managers are for people who need to be managed.
 
Jimmy Clark
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2187
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I think there are at least two levels(or may be more depends on company size) here. One is middle level management where manager directly coordinates with end workers, for example project manager with his/her team of developers, sales manager coordinates with sales executives, marketing managers with marketing executives etc. And another level is senior managers who interact with managers working under him/her. At middle level management, knowledge related to work area(for example marketing knowledge for marketing manager, technical knowledge for project managers) is important. At senior level, they require different skills where formal(or informal) management education is helpful.



Very good! There is a context to management and how it is applied within a "specific" organization. Basically, there are three levels: operational, tactical, and strategic.

Managers performing at operational levels are typically "grunt" workers and often there is no need for them to be educated at higher levels. And, employees reporting to operational managers rarely need anything more than a Bachelor degree. Strategic management and sometimes tactical managers typically need to "learn" advanced material that they would most likely never be exposed to while working at the lower levels. Like most things there are no rules that apply to every situation. It depends....company size, industry, country, $$$, etc.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 331
Python Ruby Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Management isn't something that only gets things done, but ensures its effeciency & effectiveness too. There have been a lot of research & discussion about the same issue.
Academics always helps, but at the end of the day, its all about dealing with human beings. Likewise in programming, no academic degree/certification can help you until you dig in yourself.
Remember that Leaders are born, Managers are made.
 
Consider Paul's rocket mass heater.
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic