There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
Sanjay Trivedi wrote:I dont know if I am looking at this in a narrow minded way, but are ethics courses really needed in colleges? Is it not as simple as using sense and doing the right thing ?
Anyway, what difference would such a course make ? I am sure many people do the right thing only because they dont have the guts/brains to do wrong or they are scared of the consequences.
Many people, given half a chance, would resort to unethical behaviour.
SCJA
When I die, I want people to look at me and say "Yeah, he might have been crazy, but that was one zarkin frood that knew where his towel was."
fred rosenberger wrote:I don't think the answers are always as clear cut as you think. a poor example...you discover your company is doing something illegal. Let's say it is harming the environment somehow. You can tell the proper authorities, which will lead to fines. Since your company is small, it can't afford the fines, so it would go out of business and you would loose your job. So would the other 20 people in the company, including the person who just bought a new house and someone else who just had triplets.
However, the damage is minor. No people or animals are being hurt, just some plant life that is an invasive species anyway.
What should you do?
William P O'Sullivan wrote:Most US companies now, have to, and it is mandatory for the employees to complete said courses.
I just finished one on bribery. It is for compliance purposes and I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Pat.
Sanjay Trivedi wrote:Is it not as simple as using sense and doing the right thing ?
Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:The field of social psychology is a rich one, and some great strides have been made in recent years in understanding ethical systems and how children come to understand and function within them. It has become quite clear that "right" and "wrong" are ultimately social constructs and can be defined very differently in different cultures. There is a great dichotomy between those cultures that favor the group over the individual, and those that favor the individual over the group. When those cultures interact -- and conducting business across the ocean can be sufficient cause for this to happen -- ethical behavior becomes a complex area.
That said, the number one reason that companies require ethics courses is Paul's #2: it's a way of informing employees of what behavior is expected them, so they can be fired for the breach.
Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:The field of social psychology is a rich one, and some great strides have been made in recent years in understanding ethical systems and how children come to understand and function within them. It has become quite clear that "right" and "wrong" are ultimately social constructs and can be defined very differently in different cultures. There is a great dichotomy between those cultures that favor the group over the individual, and those that favor the individual over the group. When those cultures interact -- and conducting business across the ocean can be sufficient cause for this to happen -- ethical behavior becomes a complex area.
That said, the number one reason that companies require ethics courses is Paul's #2: it's a way of informing employees of what behavior is expected them, so they can be fired for the breach.
Pat Farrell wrote:
When they wanted to grow into southern and eastern Asia, it failed completely. The local business practices in many areas were that money always changed hands for helpful middlemen, problem solvers, etc. Perhaps its not a bribe as much as a commission paid to some local who knows his way around the license bureaucrats.
Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote: allow for the possibility of paying small "fees" .... higher-level influence-peddling
Pat Farrell wrote:I worked at a large International company that refused to pay bribes to get contracts. Even here in the US, that cost the company some work, but the whole company culture said it was better to not be in those parts of the business where paying bribes is required.
When it was looking to grow internationally, after starting in Canada, then the UK and later western Europe, the policy worked well.
When they wanted to grow into southern and eastern Asia, it failed completely. The local business practices in many areas were that money always changed hands for helpful middlemen, problem solvers, etc. Perhaps its not a bribe as much as a commission paid to some local who knows his way around the license bureaucrats.
Who am I to say that the American company's corporate ethical rules were appropriate globally?
Sanjay Trivedi wrote:Until its fixed, think of bribes as a one time cost to a get better future for your company.
Tim Moores wrote:I'm not a religious man, but for a long time now I've been of the opinion that we could dispense with just about all laws if everyone adhered to the principles of the Sermon on the Mount, chiefly the Golden Rule, but the rest as well.
Frank Silbermann wrote:A useful book would give advice for avoiding getting into ethical dilemmas in the first place.
Steve
Even while interacting with other people, there are often ways by which someone who thinks ahead can reduce his exposure to ethical dilemmas. Courses on ethics should provide specific tactics.Steve Luke wrote:
Frank Silbermann wrote:A useful book would give advice for avoiding getting into ethical dilemmas in the first place.
That would be easy:
How to avoid Ethical Dilemmas
By Steve Luke
Chapter the First
Don't interact with other people.
Afterward
Also, avoid interacting with animals, plants, or rare dirt.
Frank Silbermann wrote:
Even while interacting with other people, there are often ways by which someone who thinks ahead can reduce his exposure to ethical dilemmas. Courses on ethics should provide specific tactics.Steve Luke wrote:
Frank Silbermann wrote:A useful book would give advice for avoiding getting into ethical dilemmas in the first place.
That would be easy:
How to avoid Ethical Dilemmas
By Steve Luke
Chapter the First
Don't interact with other people.
Afterward
Also, avoid interacting with animals, plants, or rare dirt.
BTW, I've read that in traditional Japanese culture the most honored way of responding to a serious ethical dilemma is suicide.
Tim Moores wrote:A good introduction to moral dilemmas in general if you can spare 23 minutes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2010/05/100423_will_you_kill_big_guy_one.shtml
Tony Jaa wrote:If ethics is SO IMPORTANT to you, then why don't you put it (ie ethics course) before HTML5, CSS, Javascript, PHP and MySQL in the job requirements?
Mike Simmons wrote:
Tony Jaa wrote:If ethics is SO IMPORTANT to you, then why don't you put it (ie ethics course) before HTML5, CSS, Javascript, PHP and MySQL in the job requirements?
Tony, it sounds like you are arguing with someone here. Who? Note that this thread is almost a year old.
There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
K. Tsang CEng MBCS PMP PMI-ACP OCMJEA OCPJP
fred rosenberger wrote:you know, I think a person who doesn't understand why they need an ethics course is quite possibly the person who MOST NEEDS to take it.
If it were that easy there'd be no need to spend two hours in church every Sunday.Sanjay Trivedi wrote:I dont know if I am looking at this in a narrow minded way, but are ethics courses really needed in colleges? Is it not as simple as using sense and doing the right thing ?
Anyway, what difference would such a course make ? I am sure many people do the right thing only because they dont have the guts/brains to do wrong or they are scared of the consequences.
Many people, given half a chance, would resort to unethical behaviour.