Mansukhdeep Thind wrote:Your signature says.
This is one issue that I feel needs to be urgently addressed while designing a certification course. I have seen this with many people(at least in my personal work experience of 5+ years in Indian IT industry) who claim to be OCJPs and OCAJPs and what not. And when you test them on the most basic of concepts, they don't know their way around it. It could be that , in this particular case, Meeta did not grasp the concepts clearly and somehow managed to clear the certification. But that is exactly my point. I am not in any manner criticizing her. My point is that design the certification objectives bottom up in a manner which make sure that unless a person has such fundamental concepts clear in his/her brain, he/she cannot clear the exam.
@Meeta : Don't take this personally. I am just voicing my opinion. No hard feelings please.
meeta gaur wrote:When you study for any exam, you study all details, which usually not much consider in daily work routine because of IDE
If someone has forgotten something that is not a big issue, if you know how thing works you can recall within in a minute.
Or maybe people are just putting more value on the certs as a measure of knowledge than what they really show.
Mansukhdeep Thind wrote:That is the very reason youngsters from my country in many other fields, including IT, flock to the Americas, Europe or Australia to work/do their PG. There you have systems in place which rewards the correct things. You learn the right things in the right way.
meeta gaur wrote:When you study for any exam, you study all details, which usually not much consider in daily work routine because of IDE(BTW I'm not working),and when you get pass exam it doesn't mean you will have always memorize those small small things without being in touch and practice with that technology.
Jayesh A Lalwani wrote: However, the problem is that the multiple choice format is rather limiting. It would be awesome if the Java certification test was basically a bunch of programming problems. However, such a test would be very hard to scale up to thousands/tens of thousands of test takers.
It was first called the Scholastic Aptitude Test, then the Scholastic Assessment Test, but now SAT does not stand for anything, hence it is an empty acronym.
Jeff Verdegan wrote: I agree that overemphasis on certifications is bad--especially if those certs can be obtained simply by cramming for an exam but without any actual practical knowledge or real understanding of the topic--the hiring situation here in the U.S. is far from perfect.
Before I read this thread, I have always thought that the focus on certifications by many folks just starting their careers was misdirected. With the contents upthread describing how its used in many huge Indian IT consulting shops, my bias has been reinforced. Certifications are a dumb way to hire talent.
Mansukhdeep Thind wrote:
The system here is designed to reward not merit/intelligence/hard-work, but certifications and rote learning. People who can show that they have a certification on their CV get priority over people who actually have a good head.
meeta gaur wrote:
It could be better that you offer such advice to oracle such that they will design a syllabus so after passing exam candidate will never forget things and will have remember for life time
Mansukhdeep Thind wrote:Pat, you too work in the States is it? Are you a recruiter yourself?
Well, I honestly doubt how much this reply of mine would contribute towards original question. Also, I mean no offence to anyone.
It is unfortunate if he (Mansukhdeep) has faced such bureaucracy, but its not the only side.
Yes, those papers (certification etc.) may give you a head-start, but in the long run, those 'muggers' don't go far away.
Few months back, when I went to attend my school reunion, I saw that lot of my classmates who 'high-scorers' are holding mediocre positions, and some 'mediocre' students (i.e. not scoring very high marks) are doing brilliantly. Most importantly, they are doing what they 'want' to do and they love it. The moment I learnt their names (most of them were my friends), I was not surprised. The 'having-brilliant-jobs' folks were those who always focussed on 'understanding' the stuff in their student days. They did not blindly mugged up (that might be the reason why they did not get very high scores). They won the triathlon.
Now, coming back to IT industry, these 'learners' (i.e. people who 'understand-the-stuff') generally do very good. In my experience, a good interviewer needs hardly 5 minutes to understand whether a candidate really knows good programming, or he is having 3 certifications just by mugging up the stuff.
Mansukhdeep Thind wrote:
We are all here to have a healthy and constructive discussion. Why would or should I take anything personally? I am not a sissy girl man. I am man enough to take a good criticism in good spirits.
I do not want to take names here, but tell me one thing, do you honestly believe that if I don't know where in a Java class I can / cannot initialize a member variable, I should be allowed to hold a certification? Isn't that plain wrong? See this thread where I started this whole fuss about a flawed education/employment system.
meeta gaur wrote:
First thing i want to tell you that i have zero work experience.Another thing if someone possess certification(althought i've oca not even ocjp) is it mean she/he is expert ? he/she is god of java ? she/he can't make any mistake ? don't judge ability of anyone because of any mistake, and don't criticize about it specially in forum, still you are doing again and again,whereas i know if you criticize people here you are a spammer in this forum.You don't understand you are demotivating them ? i am sure they will feel hesitated to post any doubt again.I'm preparing for my ocpjp certification exam, if you criticize about my ability and my old certification how much positive energy i will possess for my next exam ? you don't think it could be bad for me ? don't behave like kid you have 5+ experience i'm still toddler.
BTW Oracle will decide that i should possess my certificate or not.