asp.net MVC 4 or PHP

[william chaple]

Hello guys. Ok, question; there are two classes coming up here in florida and I can only choose one (obviously). I seriously need advice on which route to pick. Please dont attack my question, and mention it is up to you ""what do you like better, understand the concepts vs the language, ect, languages are always changing, php might be on top for a year while asp.net mvc will go on top the following, ect."" I understand that I always have to keep up with the game

I have programmed in both language (beginner), but I am spending money on one of these classes that I will pick; and yes I like both languages, however, which one is the best path for todays world, "AS OF NOW, 2014". In other words, with the knowledge and expertise in the field from you guys and if you had to chose one path to focus on would it be in terms of job security and finding a in demand job. (yes I program for fun, but I need to make a living as well) I am not concerned about pay, just jumping into something worth it.

To add on, I am a systems administrator for a school, but, I only use Active Directories, batch, lunix, setting upi clones and servers, ect, but I have been intrigued by programming, maybe that can help out with my chosen path. Thanks!

asp.net MVC

or

PHP5

[K. Tsang]

I will say neither ... go for Java!

On the other hand it depends on what platform (OS) you want to develop on. As you already know ASP and other .NET languages are only for Windows and PHP runs on Windows and Linux.

Taking the language learning curve, PHP I think would be easier to pick up.

Besides the big 3 (.NET, Java and PHP), there are others like Ruby or Python.

[william chaple]

ya I know. I have a hard time deciding which one to focus on. lol. I dont mind developing on any platform. I work with both settings at my job, lunix and windows. Which one would you say provides more jobs available? I am not interested in pay, i am more interested in landing a programming job since I think I'd rather program then stick to the systems admin side.

[K. Tsang]

If I were you, and if I have to to choose.... I will choose .NET over PHP for long(er)-term programming roles.

Actually couple years back, given I already know PHP, I debated over .NET or Java ... and Java the winner after my personal analysis and (career) goals.

Here are my reasons:
* .NET itself is a framework or platform if you will that enable the user to develop/run multiple programmings languages (eg VB,C#,ASP,C++ etc)
* ASP.NET MVC is not just ASP, but also backed by another language usually VB or C# = meaning you will pick up either one of these along the way
* Since .NET is Windows-based, the app server will be Internet Information Server (IIS) which as admin I assume you would have some experience installing/configuring/deploying etc
* PHP can run on Windows through IIS, just need a module so you can pick up PHP too
* depending on projects, mixing ASP and PHP pages in the same website is possible (I mean not in the same page source code wise)
* database wise, SQL Server would most likely the key DBMS for .NET but all others can equally work well (eg Oracle, MySQL, DB2, PostgreSQL etc), just configuring the project's database settings
* the one thing I would say is "probably" a disadvantage is that there may not be a whole bunch of third party libraries for say persistence, logging, send email, doing xxx or yyyy besides the features/libraries that come with .NET framework (eg .NET persistence is ADO, is there another option?)


A note about PHP on Windows: There is a difference between running PHP on Windows IIS and Apache HTTP server. The PHP for Windows IIS is compile with VC9 where PHP for Apache HTTP is VC6. So need to be careful when choosing which installer or file to use.

Hope this helps.

[Matthew Brown]

K. Tsang wrote:
* the one thing I would say is "probably" a disadvantage is that there may not be a whole bunch of third party libraries for say persistence, logging, send email, doing xxx or yyyy besides the features/libraries that come with .NET framework (eg .NET persistence is ADO, is there another option?)

I know you only said "probably", but I don't think that's accurate nowadays. There are plenty of libraries, often adapted from other languages (especially Java). E.g. persistence - rather than ADO, nowadays the de facto standard would probably be Entity Framework (Microsoft's ORM), but NHibernate is fairly widely used. For logging, I use log4net, which is a port of log4j. The central nuget repository (nuget is the .NET package manager) has over 24,000 packages available. I'd guess Java has more, but that's plenty for me!

[K. Tsang]

Thanks Matthew for the update.

Since my background is more in Java, I have not develop with .NET much so am not familiar with the variety of .NET libraries out there.

[william chaple]

just wondering, what is the difference between asp.net and asp MVC?

[K. Tsang]

william chaple wrote:just wondering, what is the difference between asp.net and asp MVC?

Did you google?

Simple answer is that ASP.NET is based on "web forms" and ASP.NET MVC is incorporating the MVC (model-view-controller) design pattern into ASP.NET.

The link here may give you a better idea.

[william chaple]

yeah, got it =)

there are usually 3 separate folders (for my case since I am starting) pretty cool.

Anyhow, I think I am going to do ASP.NET MVC for my case

Can I jump straight into MVC or the traditional webforms first?
and would you think PHP will become more popular vs asp as time continues on?

[Matthew Brown]

You can definitely go straight into MVC if you want to do that. I've worked with MVC quite a bit (since I started programming in C# about 3/4 years ago), but I've never used webforms.

[K. Tsang]

ASP.NET MVC indeed. I doubt new development use web forms anymore.

Regarding PHP popularity, who knows? PHP over the past 10-15 years has gone from structural/procedural (like C) in PHP4.x to OO since PHP5.0 (now its what 6?).

[william chaple]

K. Tsang wrote:ASP.NET MVC indeed. I doubt new development use web forms anymore.

Regarding PHP popularity, who knows? PHP over the past 10-15 years has gone from structural/procedural (like C) in PHP4.x to OO since PHP5.0 (now its what 6?).

yeah, I think php is at 5.5 right now ha ha. I actually always wondered, being kind of new to programming, when they mention PHP becoming an OO language, what exactly do they mean by it if it is always used for web services? Or is it due to frameworks and design patterns

[K. Tsang]

william chaple wrote:when they mention PHP becoming an OO language, what exactly do they mean by it if it is always used for web services? Or is it due to frameworks and design patterns

Who says PHP is used for web services? Back in the days I use PHP... web services is not even popular at least with PHP. Yet I have seen companies use PHP for (desktop like) GUI ... like what? PHP running on desktop? WTF Anyway didn't understand how.

Today's world most PHP frameworks are MVC this and that, which is OO in nature.

[william chaple]

K. Tsang wrote:

william chaple wrote:when they mention PHP becoming an OO language, what exactly do they mean by it if it is always used for web services? Or is it due to frameworks and design patterns

Who says PHP is used for web services? Back in the days I use PHP... web services is not even popular at least with PHP. Yet I have seen companies use PHP for (desktop like) GUI ... like what? PHP running on desktop? WTF Anyway didn't understand how.

Today's world most PHP frameworks are MVC this and that, which is OO in nature.

Well, I decided to look for a youtube video on OO PHP. Well, seems awesome. One thing that did not click for me, what are the uses for? why would one use OO PHP in comparison to server scripting language?

[Bear Bibeault]

What do you consider a "server scripting language"?