Win a copy of Testing JavaScript Applications this week in the HTML Pages with CSS and JavaScript forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Ron McLeod
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Junilu Lacar
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • fred rosenberger
  • salvin francis
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • Frits Walraven
  • Carey Brown

Question about my English resume. On secondment?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think the term I should use is 'on secondment', but I am not sure.

In Dutch it is called detachering. Maybe a Dutch member reads this and can help me. It is like company A is your employer, but you are send to work at a desk in company B, and they pay company A. Company A pays your salary. Mostly this involves a company car, and a worse they see the car as a sort of part income. I prefer not to have those jobs, although if need be, I will do it. But I have not driven a car in ten years, and I just don't need it.

Is this okay to describe it on my resume: I prefer not to work on secondment, but at a fixed location directly for my employer.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

 
Sheriff
Posts: 15813
264
Mac Android IntelliJ IDE Eclipse IDE Spring Debian Java Ubuntu Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've never heard of the term "secondment" before. In the US, people in the situation you describe are usually referred to as "contractors" or "consultants" although a company car is rarely part of the package unless you're very lucky and/or on a short-term assignment far away from home. Other related terms are "staff augmentation" and "outsourcing". When I was a "consultant" we used to refer to ourselves as "IT whores" but that was obviously not an official term and not something you'd want to put on your resume
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the information. In my view, contractor seems more like a free lancer. Like someone 'without company A'? If it is, that is not what I mean. I first translated 'detachering' with 'detachment'. But that is probably not the right word, though it sounds like the Dutch word.

In the Netherlands you have to pay a lot of extra tax for the company car. Also the employer mostly sees it as extra income he gives. Hence for example I earn 4000 gross at my present job. Then they could say: We give you 3800 but we give you the company car, so it equals. Together with the extra tax, for me it would be like having 3500, and an object standing in the garage I don't use. So mostly going to interviews with these companies for me is not useful. I had one last Friday. I am not sure if I would write that already in my resume though. And if, I should try to do it in a diplomatic way.
 
Junilu Lacar
Sheriff
Posts: 15813
264
Mac Android IntelliJ IDE Eclipse IDE Spring Debian Java Ubuntu Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe it works differently there but most companies in the US that hire contractors rarely deal directly with individuals but rather go through "consulting firms". The consulting firms recruit people and put them on their payroll. When a client asks for people with a certain skill set, the consulting firm looks in its pool of recruits and people who may be "off assignment" or "on the bench" and present them as candidates. When people get placed on an assignment, the company will take a cut out of what the client company pays for the contractor's services, which is usually around 60%. That means the contractor gets a smaller cut of the money. Consulting firms justify their bigger share by providing job placement, a steady income even if you're on the bench, health benefits, retirement benefits, training, and administration of taxes. That's if you're lucky and find a good, well-establish consulting firm. Some companies will just cut you loose if you don't immediately have another assignment to jump to or they will give you anywhere from 1 to 3 months on the bench to find a new assignment before letting you go.

But I digress... the point I was trying to make was that you rarely find "free lancers" who deal directly with client companies; they are either employees of a consulting firm or in a sub-contractor relationship with a consulting firm. That's another term that I've run into a few times with my buddies who have their own private limited companies: "sub-contractor" -- this is mostly for tax reduction purposes as there are many things you can write off when you have your own registered company and subcontract with bigger companies.
 
Bartender
Posts: 4568
9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've heard "on secondment" used for temporary moves within an organisation. So, for example, I work in one department but I could be seconded to another department for a time, usually to work on a specific project. At the end of that time I'd move back to my old role. So it would make sense to me to use the term the way you describe, but I'm not sure how often it is used that way between organisations.

 
Junilu Lacar
Sheriff
Posts: 15813
264
Mac Android IntelliJ IDE Eclipse IDE Spring Debian Java Ubuntu Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Matthew Brown wrote:for example, I work in one department but I could be seconded to another department for a time, usually to work on a specific project. At the end of that time I'd move back to my old role.


We call that a "rotation"
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
By the I would be looking for the UK English term preferably. I have a CV in English because some international companies ask for that. And I am too lazy to keep my CV up to date in two languages. Most recruiters that approach me are from the UK.
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Junilu Lacar wrote:

Matthew Brown wrote:for example, I work in one department but I could be seconded to another department for a time, usually to work on a specific project. At the end of that time I'd move back to my old role.


We call that a "rotation"



Right, in ´detachering' you work for another company, not for another department. I guess on secondment is the wrong term then. I will change it to contractor. It is like you have a steady income, independent of you are on the bench or not. And the hiring company, the company where you do the actual work, pays more money to your employer then what they do when they hire someone directly. On the other hand, they don't have to deal with the bench time, and at the moment the job load is less, the hiring company can send you back without job redundancy legal stuff. So you are hired when there is extra workload, or when they temporary need some special technical skill.

I guess contractor then is the right term for it. Thank you.
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One other question, but it is not that important, so I wont pop it in a new discussion for it.

Say I have three certifications for English. One is for level B1, one is for level B2, the other for level C1. The level C1 is the highest. Should I just only put the highest passed exam on it?
I am changing that since otherwise the CV gets too long and my language skills are not that important anyway. Also since my CV is in English it should be clear I know English.



 
Marshal
Posts: 25682
69
Eclipse IDE Firefox Browser MySQL Database
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jan de Boer wrote:Also since my CV is in English it should be clear I know English.



I wouldn't rely on that. For example I could produce a CV in good German (with the help of a German-speaking recruiter) but in reality I know very little German.
 
Bartender
Posts: 3648
16
Mac OS X Firefox Browser Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jan de Boer wrote:Say I have three certifications for English. One is for level B1, one is for level B2, the other for level C1. The level C1 is the highest. Should I just only put the highest passed exam on it?




Have a look at CEFR for the complete levels.

The highest level isn't the C1 but C2. Yet mentioning C2 if you have that may not be necessary because from my understanding level C1 is what the business world considers proficient.
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

K. Tsang wrote:The highest level isn't the C1 but C2.



Ah, I am sorry! I am not being clear. I wanted to say that C1 is the highest level I have proven in a test and for which I have a certification.

The levels go from lowest A1 to highest C2. Yes.

My idea here is that you should not put too many courses and certifications on your CV that are not relevant. So it now just says I passed C1. It is not that useful since every higher educated Dutchman is fluent in English anyway, and in the regions where I am applying they would know that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF_English_Proficiency_Index

On the other hand...I have now already edited this message twice for the spelling errors I have made. May I excuses myself to the fact that it is still early and I am not awake yet?
 
K. Tsang
Bartender
Posts: 3648
16
Mac OS X Firefox Browser Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jan de Boer wrote:My idea here is that you should not put too many courses and certifications on your CV that are not relevant.



Totally agree. Listing "all" certifications on your CV in fact may make you over-qualify. Probably showing less is better because when asked, you can say I know that ... even a cert achieved [when]. I thought your project is not using such technology ... It is at this point when the (interview) conversation really starts

Jan de Boer wrote:On the other hand...I have now already edited this message twice for the spelling errors I have made. May I excuses myself to the fact that it is still early and I am not awake yet?



Haha too early or too late.

 
Bartender
Posts: 2407
36
Scala Python Oracle Postgres Database Linux
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've done this in the past e.g. if you are employed by a big consultancy, they will often send you to work on-site at one of their clients for a few weeks/months. "On secondment" makes sense, but it might be clearer to say "on assignment" or simply "working on-site at client company XYZ".

Don't use "contractor" as it suggests you are a freelancer (in the UK at least).
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you! Yes I am looking for the UK English word for it. I am being called from the UK to work for international companies located in the Netherlands.

Apart from that, at school they have always taught me UK English, not American English. The Netherlands and the UK are more or less neighbours, with a sea between them. We have more to do with the UK than the US in commerce here. Hence the focus on UK English.
 
author & internet detective
Posts: 40035
809
Eclipse IDE VI Editor Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've heard secondment in the US, but it isn't a common word
 
chris webster
Bartender
Posts: 2407
36
Scala Python Oracle Postgres Database Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jan de Boer wrote:Thank you! Yes I am looking for the UK English word for it. I am being called from the UK to work for international companies located in the Netherlands.


If you're dealing with recruiters from the UK, you might also want to look at the Jobserve website, which is UK-based but often has quite a lot of ads for jobs in the Netherlands.
 
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand
Posts: 974
11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Chris. But actually I am trying to avoid recruiters. See the very long discussion "recruiter comes with a very high salary". Resistance seems to be futile though, there are hardly any jobs left posted directly and recruiters have more time than I have. So I have looked at the website and might use it in the future.
 
"I know this defies the law of gravity... but I never studied law." -B. Bunny Defiant tiny ad:
Building a Better World in your Backyard by Paul Wheaton and Shawn Klassen-Koop
https://coderanch.com/wiki/718759/books/Building-World-Backyard-Paul-Wheaton
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic