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Going for 1Z0-803 or 1Z0-808?

 
Vincenzo Raffa
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Hi everyone,
that's my question. I'm almost ready for the exam 1Z0-803, but I don't know if I should go for the 1Z0-808 or not. I'm having this doubt because I don't yet see programmer exam for Java 8. So, what is your advice? Is it possible go for 1Z0-804 (Programmer Java 7) if I get 1Z0-808 (Associate Java 8)?

Thank you,
Vincenzo
 
Roel De Nijs
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Hi Vincenzo,

First of all, a warm welcome to CodeRanch!

It all depends on your future plans. If you are interested in taking the OCPJP exam on short notice, then you should definitely go with OCPJP7 (as the 8 version isn't announced yet). More (valuable) info can be found here and here.

Hope it helps! Good luck!
Kind regards,
Roel
 
Vincenzo Raffa
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Roel De Nijs wrote:Hi Vincenzo,

First of all, a warm welcome to CodeRanch!

It all depends on your future plans. If you are interested in taking the OCPJP exam on short notice, then you should definitely go with OCPJP7 (as the 8 version isn't announced yet). More (valuable) info can be found here and here.

Hope it helps! Good luck!
Kind regards,
Roel


Thank you for the welcome and quickly answer. You fully answered my questions
I will try 1Z0-803!

Thank you again,
Vincenzo
 
Roel De Nijs
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Vincenzo Raffa wrote:Thank you for the welcome and quickly answer.

It's not always lightning fast

Vincenzo Raffa wrote:I will try 1Z0-803!

Best of luck, Vincenzo!
 
Sergej Smoljanov
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My own opinion:
if you plan pass OCPJP at autumn go to 1Z0-808.
if you plan pass OCPJP before summer go 1Z0-803.
if you plan pass OCPJP at summer than read topic from here: Upgrade from Java SE 7 OCP to Java SE 8 OCP and think about this topics + topic from 1Z0-804 i must know to pass OCPJP 8 (may be some original topic 1Z0-804 wold be erased) - i think this much information to study (if you are beginner) so you just reschedule exam on autumn or later and now prepare also to 1Z0-808.
reiterate this is my own opinion.
 
Sharmili Rameshbabu
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Hi Roel,

I have been preparing for OCAJP 7 since 3 months, and planning to write it in next 2 days. At this point i have a doubt if i should write OCAJP 7 or 8.

I do not have plans of giving OCPJP in short notice, in that case, should i be giving OCAJP 8 instead? Will the preparation for OCAJP 7 is sufficient for OCAJP 8 as well? (Exam Objectives wise!)

I have gone through the links mentioned above.
Still i feel i need some more advise from you, It will be really helpful.

Many Thanks,
Sharmili
 
Vincenzo Raffa
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Sergej Smoljanov wrote:My own opinion:
if you plan pass OCPJP at autumn go to 1Z0-808.
if you plan pass OCPJP before summer go 1Z0-803.
if you plan pass OCPJP at summer than read topic from here: Upgrade from Java SE 7 OCP to Java SE 8 OCP and think about this topics + topic from 1Z0-804 i must know to pass OCPJP 8 (may be some original topic 1Z0-804 wold be erased) - i think this much information to study (if you are beginner) so you just reschedule exam on autumn or later and now prepare also to 1Z0-808.
reiterate this is my own opinion.


Thank you. I would like to fo for 1Z0-808 but I hope to go for programmer before summer. So I will go for 1Z0-803.

Sharmili Rameshbabu wrote:I do not have plans of giving OCPJP in short notice, in that case, should i be giving OCAJP 8 instead? Will the preparation for OCAJP 7 is sufficient for OCAJP 8 as well? (Exam Objectives wise!)

In this case I advice to go for 1Z0-808. I don't think that the preparation is sufficient. I mean, if you want get 1Z0-808 because you wanna know topics about Java 8 you need to study that.
These are the argument that are in 1Z0-808 and not in 1Z0-803:
  • Create and manipulate calendar data using classes from java.time.LocalDateTime, java.time.LocalDate, java.time.LocalTime, java.time.format.DateTimeFormatter, java.time.Period
  • Write a simple Lambda expression that consumes a Lambda Predicate expression


  • 1Z0-803 Exam topics
    1Z0-808 Exam topics

    Regards,
    Vincenzo
     
    Sharmili Rameshbabu
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    Thanks Vincenzo for the response
    My Exam Vocher is gonna expire soon! I will have to consider that also , and i do not see this SE 8 material in Enthuware as well..

    I have another question, With OCAJP7 , we cannot write OCPJP8? OCAJP8 is prerequisite for OCPJP8?

    Thanks
    Sharmili
     
    Paul Anilprem
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    Here is one point that I haven't seen mentioned before - While the difference in exam topic between 803 and 808 is very less, the style of questions in 808 is quite different. Based on our content developers' experience (who have taken production version of both the exams), questions in 808 are significantly tougher than 803. You will also find a lot more questions on 808 that trick you than what you would find in 803. Not just that, you will also need to know about boundary conditions (aka corner cases) for questions involving API methods.

    So if you have any thoughts of taking 808 just because you are already prepared for 803, you will be in for a not so good surprise

    HTH,
    Paul.
     
    Sergej Smoljanov
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    My Exam Vocher is gonna expire soon! I will have to consider that also , and i do not see this SE 8 material in Enthuware as well..
    Sharmili

    with this limit -> just go (prepare) and get OCAJP 7 and next prepare to professional level.
    upgrades
    if you need Professional java 8 in future you pass 810 exam. but i think before 810 you will be pass some more specific exam with java 6 EE version.
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Hi Sharmili,

    First of all, a warm welcome to CodeRanch!

    Sharmili Rameshbabu wrote:I have been preparing for OCAJP 7 since 3 months, and planning to write it in next 2 days. At this point i have a doubt if i should write OCAJP 7 or 8.

    I do not have plans of giving OCPJP in short notice, in that case, should i be giving OCAJP 8 instead? Will the preparation for OCAJP 7 is sufficient for OCAJP 8 as well? (Exam Objectives wise!)

    If you are not planning to give OCPJP in the near future, you could definitely take the OCAJP8. But of course, you need to know a few things about the new language features of Java 8 which are (of course) not on the OCAJP7 exam, like lambdas and the new date/time API (as already mentioned in previous posts). This combined with Paul's post about OCAJP8 exam questions being tougher than the OCAJP7 ones, just 2 days to prepare will not be enough. So if you really want to take the exam in the next 2 days, just stick to OCAJP7. If you have more preparation time and can postpone the exam, take OCAJP8.

    Sharmili Rameshbabu wrote:My Exam Vocher is gonna expire soon! I will have to consider that also

    As far as I know, you must schedule your exam before your exam voucher expires, otherwise you can't use your voucher as payment for the exam. But I believe there is no constraint that you must take the exam before your voucher expires. So assuming your voucher expires this sunday (January 18), you can schedule your exam today and choose March 31 as exam date (if of course this day is still available in the exam center of your choice).

    Hope it helps!
    Kind regards,
    Roel
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Paul Anilprem wrote:Here is one point that I haven't seen mentioned before - While the difference in exam topic between 803 and 808 is very less, the style of questions in 808 is quite different. Based on our content developers' experience (who have taken production version of both the exams), questions in 808 are significantly tougher than 803. You will also find a lot more questions on 808 that trick you than what you would find in 803. Not just that, you will also need to know about boundary conditions (aka corner cases) for questions involving API methods.

    Maybe that's just because only few people (if any) have taken both (production) exams and can compare them. Therefore it's nice to hear about the experiences of your content developers. Very valuable for those preparing for OCAJP7 and now doubting about taking the latest and greatest OCAJP8 instead. Apparently it requires a more in-depth preparation than just studying the extra exam objectives.

    Paul Anilprem wrote:Not just that, you will also need to know about boundary conditions (aka corner cases) for questions involving API methods.

    Oh no, not again! That brings back bad, very bad memories
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    Paul,
    That wasn't my experience. i didn't find the OCAJP 8 to be significantly tougher than the OCAJP 7. Granted I haven't gotten my score yet since I took the beta.
     
    Paul Anilprem
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    Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Paul,
    That wasn't my experience. i didn't find the OCAJP 8 to be significantly tougher than the OCAJP 7. Granted I haven't gotten my score yet since I took the beta.


    Could it be that they weeded out a few questions that were too easy from the beta for the production version?
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    Paul Anilprem wrote:Could it be that they weeded out a few questions that were too easy from the beta for the production version?

    Whlle that is possible, I didn't find the questions overall tougher. I certainly didn't see excessive trickiness about the APIs on either version of the OCA.
     
    Paul Anilprem
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    Thanks for your feedback, Jeanne. We will know better as more and more people take this exam.

    But one thing I am sure about is that your score will not indicate the toughness of the exam
     
    Sharmili Rameshbabu
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    Thanks for the warm welcome Roel. Happy to be a part of this forum and get great advises from people like you!

    Roel De Nijs wrote:
    As far as I know, you must schedule your exam before your exam voucher expires, otherwise you can't use your voucher as payment for the exam. But I believe there is no constraint that you must take the exam before your voucher expires. So assuming your voucher expires this sunday (January 18), you can schedule your exam today and choose March 31 as exam date (if of course this day is still available in the exam center of your choice).


    This was really helpful, i was not aware of this fact, Thanks a lot!

    Thanks and Regards
    Sharmili
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Sharmili Rameshbabu wrote:This was really helpful, i was not aware of this fact, Thanks a lot!

    Also interesting to know: if you don't feel confident to take the exam, you can always reschedule your exam for free. According to the Reschedule Policy of the Oracle Certification Program Policies there's just 1 restriction: you must reschedule at least 1 business day prior to your exam appointment.
     
    Guillermo Ishi
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    Paul Anilprem wrote:Here is one point that I haven't seen mentioned before - While the difference in exam topic between 803 and 808 is very less, the style of questions in 808 is quite different. Based on our content developers' experience (who have taken production version of both the exams), questions in 808 are significantly tougher than 803. You will also find a lot more questions on 808 that trick you than what you would find in 803. Not just that, you will also need to know about boundary conditions (aka corner cases) for questions involving API methods.

    So if you have any thoughts of taking 808 just because you are already prepared for 803, you will be in for a not so good surprise

    HTH,
    Paul.


    I agree with this. I flunked 7 by three points but only got 40% on 8 (beta). On 7 I ran out of time. I paced myself better on 8 and thought I got a good score. The best explanation for this I can think of is that the questions in 8 contain a lot of tricks.

    Actually, I can't agree with this part - "Not just that, you will also need to know about boundary conditions (aka corner cases) for questions involving API methods." Because I have no idea what it means. I'm sure I'm not the only one...

     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Guillermo Ishi wrote:Actually, I can't agree with this part - "Not just that, you will also need to know about boundary conditions (aka corner cases) for questions involving API methods." Because I have no idea what it means. I'm sure I'm not the only one...

    It just means you need to know the behavior of the API method in very specific cases/situations.

    A little (hypothetical) example to illustrate. Let's say one of the classes you need to know has a sum method having 2 double parameters returning a double. The method signature looks like:Of course, you know this method will return the sum of both parameters. So a possible exam question could be: What's the output of this code?That's an easy one: 7.0 (if all the exam questions were so simple )
    But possible boundary conditions (aka corner cases) could be: what will be the result if one parameter is Double.NaN or Double.NEGATIVE_INFINITY? Or what will be the result of sum(Double.NEGATIVE_INFINITY, Double.POSITIVE_INFINITY);, is it 0?

    When I took the SCJP6 exam, I missed just 1 question. It was about a corner case of the Formatter class. After all these years it is still difficult to talk about You can find my rant here.

    Hope it helps!
    Kind regards,
    Roel
     
    Guillermo Ishi
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    If it makes you feel better, 100% would mean you could also instantly count a box of toothpicks dropped on the floor. Give me a good C+ student anytime. ;)



     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Guillermo Ishi wrote:If it makes you feel better, 100% would mean you could also instantly count a box of toothpicks dropped on the floor.

    I believe 246 on the floor and still 4 in the box
     
    Guillermo Ishi
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    98% is well within the spectrum
     
    Guillermo Ishi
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    I was thinking about this and I wonder if a whole lot of 803 isn't edge cases as well, maybe in some different way than 808. For example for the tests you may need to know when you create an object it's initialized to null. Or an array is always, always initialized even if it's primitives and local. Other variables are initialized only if they're class variables. Innumerable other examples. In actual practice you're going to initialize the variables explicitly anyway, so aren't we really talking about edge cases? When I learned C I thought wow this is designed by engineers. It's so predictable I know what I will be able to do with this or that without even reading about it. On the other hand when I learned Java it was pretty much directly into certification mode, where the preparation materials teach you really the edge conditions. That led to me thinking Java is inexplicably inconsistent and into wrongly developing a sort of disdain for the language
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Guillermo Ishi wrote:In actual practice you're going to initialize the variables explicitly anyway, so aren't we really talking about edge cases?

    I think you have a valid point! While studying and on the actual exam you'll definitely encounter code which you would never write in your production code, so this code could indeed be considered to be edge cases. One of my favourites in this category:

    Guillermo Ishi wrote:Or an array is always, always initialized even if it's primitives and local.

    Little nit-picky comment: an array itself is not initialized automatically! The elements in the array are initialized with a default value if the array is created. The array reference variable isn't initialized automatically. And just like any other variable it depends on the type of this variable (local, class, instance) if the array reference variable gets a default value or not.
     
    Silviu Burcea
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    I just tried your example with no NPE and IntelliJ IDEA still warns you that it way throw NPE. It seems that it's also a tricky scenario for IDEs too
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Silviu Burcea wrote:I just tried your example with no NPE and IntelliJ IDEA still warns you that it way throw NPE. It seems that it's also a tricky scenario for IDEs too

    That's a weird (and wrong) warning. I would expect something like this Eclipse warning: The static method sum(int, int) from the type Abc should be accessed in a static way.
     
    Guillermo Ishi
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    That's sort of what I would expect because I think of null going with pointers and therefore instances. The real error message maybe ought to be " '= null' code has no effect"

    Here's a nice one (different static method):

     
    Roel De Nijs
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    Guillermo Ishi wrote:The real error message maybe ought to be " '= null' code has no effect"

    If abc is a local variable, the = null part is very important and thus definitely has an effect (otherwise code won't compile).
     
    Guillermo Ishi
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    Right it has to be there. It's like it takes an assignment to bring it into existence for real, not just a declaration. Doesn't seem to matter what the assignment is and I wouldn't expect null to have an effect on a non-pointer, at least not the usual effect.
     
    Sachin Tripathi
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    What about enthuware based on 1Z0-808
    Will it be out soon?
     
    Sergej Smoljanov
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    Roel De Nijs
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    Sachin Tripathi wrote:What about enthuware based on 1Z0-808
    Will it be out soon?

    If you want an up-to-date overview of all available esources for OCA exams, have a look at this post. So as Sergej already mentioned, it's already available.
     
    David Mayer
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    Hi guys, as I said in many occasions I would strongly suggest to forget about the Java7 Associate Certification - 1Z0-803 and definitely go for the Java8 Associate Certification - 1Z0-808.

    There really are many reasons behind this advice and the most important is that after April 2015, Oracle will no longer post updates of Java SE 7, so the focus it will be all about Java8!

    While it is sadly true that Java 8 features like lambda expressions cannot be used directly in the Android App Development without applying some tweaks into the development tools, and I personally know the pain of it, it is also true that Java8 is a big functionality breakthrough.

    Features like Lambdas, Functional Interfaces, Default methods, Method References, Repeating annotations, Type Inference, Optional (for managing Null pointer exception), the Stream API and many other, are the present and future of the Java Programming Language, and cannot be left out from your own preparation.

    Thanks
    David Mayer
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    David Mayer wrote:Hi guys, as I said in many occasions I would strongly suggest to forget about the Java7 Associate Certification - 1Z0-803 and definitely go for the Java8 Associate Certification - 1Z0-808.

    It all depends on the personal needs and preferences. For example, currently there are no study guides available for the OCP 8 exam. So someone who wants to become an Oracle Certified Java Programmer on short notice (before the end of the year) and wants to use a study guide during the preparation, has to opt for the OCA 7 certification.

    David Mayer wrote:There really are many reasons behind this advice and the most important is that after April 2015, Oracle will no longer post updates of Java SE 7, so the focus it will be all about Java8!

    Although that's true still many companies will have programs running on Java 7. In fact, at my current customer we are developing a web application running on Java 7 (and upgrading to Java 8 is not on the backlog). And if you would like to become a certified programmer and take just 1 exam, you can still take the OCPJP5 or OCPJP6 certification exam.

    David Mayer wrote:Features like Lambdas, Functional Interfaces, Default methods, Method References, Repeating annotations, Type Inference, Optional (for managing Null pointer exception), the Stream API and many other, are the present and future of the Java Programming Language, and cannot be left out from your own preparation.

    I wonder why someone who's preparing for the OCA 8 exam needs to bother and worry about topics like Optional and Stream API. They are not on the OCA 8 exam!
     
    David Mayer
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    Hi Roel, thank you very much for your answer.

    Roel De Nijs wrote:It all depends on the personal needs and preferences.


    Please, read the title of the topic. Here we are not talking about personal needs or developing Java Applets for the Web. The topic is: Going for 1Z0-803 or 1Z0-808 thus I am assuming there are no personal preferences involved in this choice.

    Roel De Nijs wrote:Although that's true still many companies will have programs running on Java 7.


    Off course, this is totally true, but how this relates with the Certification? Furthermore, if you can develop application in Java8 I can assure you that will be easy to do the same in Java7 maybe using few external libraries. The opposite is definitely not true!

    Thanks
    David
     
    Roel De Nijs
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    David Mayer wrote:Please, read the title of the topic. Here we are not talking about personal needs or developing Java Applets for the Web. The topic is: Going for 1Z0-803 or 1Z0-808 thus I am assuming there are no personal preferences involved in this choice.

    Don't worry, I have (as always) read the title very carefully. Whenever someone needs to make a choice, personal situation and preferences will always matter and be a part of the decision. And this is a public forum, so everyone can read these topics and everyone has a different personal situation and preferences. That's why I always try to give a comprehensive advice (instead of just saying "go for OCA7" or "go for OCA8").
    But if you don't have any specific requirements and/or restrictions, you should go for OCA8. If you want to take the OCP exam on short notice and want to use a study guide to prepare, you should definitely opt for the OCA7 exam (as you can not combine different version certifications). If money is a very important restriction and you want to become a certified java programmer, you should think about OCPJP6 (as it takes only 1 exam to become a certified programmer).

    David Mayer wrote:Off course, this is totally true, but how this relates with the Certification? Furthermore, if you can develop application in Java8 I can assure you that will be easy to do the same in Java7 maybe using few external libraries. The opposite is definitely not true!

    Because some people are looking for a certification for a specific Java version (e.g. imposed by their employer) and stating that "it will be all about Java8" might give the wrong impression.

    Kind regards,
    Roel
     
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