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ocp 8 certification

 
Shristi Gautam
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Can I do ocp 8 certification after OCA 7 or I will have to give OCA 8 before that?
 
K. Tsang
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Shristi Gautam wrote:Can I do ocp 8 certification after OCA 7 or I will have to give OCA 8 before that?


Welcome to the Ranch.

If you want OCPJP8, you will have to do OCAJP8 before that.

If you already have OCAJP7 then you should do OCPJP7 then upgrade to 8 later.
 
Roel De Nijs
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Hi Shristi Gautam,

First of all, a warm welcome to CodeRanch!

Shristi Gautam wrote:Can I do ocp 8 certification after OCA 7 or I will have to give OCA 8 before that?

The short answer: no! In this topic exactly the same question is asked. So if you want a detailed explanation (including the official answer of Oracle), it's definitely worth reading.

Hope it helps!
Kind regards,
Roel
 
Roel De Nijs
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K. Tsang wrote:If you already have OCAJP7 then you should do OCPJP7 then upgrade to 8 later.

I would not opt for this path. Assuming the OP has only passed the OCAJP7 exam, that would require taking two somewhat advanced exams. So it might be much easier to take OCAJP8+OCPJP8 instead. Following this path, the OP will become an Oracle Certified Professional, Java SE 8 Programmer too, but it requires one entry-level exam (and already passed OCAJP7 so that will require not so much effort) and one advanced exam (which will probably require similar effort as preparing for the OCPJP7 exam).
 
nick woodward
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Roel's right, that does sound like a better path. but does it really matter though? (genuine question - i've been thinking about rebooking OCA8)

i'm doing the OCA7 to show aptitude for interviews that may or may not be relevant to software development. either way i'm going for the OCP in my free time. I'm interested in software design and am in it for the long haul because i realise that 1 or 2 certifications are not going to swing it for me alone (there's a pun in there somewhere given the amount of front end stuff i've been doing). i need to polish a couple of programs to demo good front and back end knowledge too.

i've booked OCA7, because that's what I know, and I just need to get this done. is the latest exam really that important given that certifications are only a small part of the overall picture?

in other words, who is really going to be concerned about a candidate with OCA/P 8 vs OCA/P7? (as long as you know the differences?)

regards,

nick
 
Paul Anilprem
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nick woodward wrote:

in other words, who is really going to be concerned about a candidate with OCA/P 8 vs OCA/P7?

I am fairly certain that the interviewer would be interested. Generally, the topic of new features/developments in your area of expertise comes up very often in interviews. Lambdas are the in-thing in Java right now and present a good opportunity for the candidate to impress the employer.
I just don't see any good reason for a candidate to take an old certification when a newer one is available. There is little scope for you to spin it positively in an interview.
 
Roel De Nijs
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nick woodward wrote:in other words, who is really going to be concerned about a candidate with OCA/P 8 vs OCA/P7?

It depends on which Java version the company is using for their development. If they are already using Java 8 for any newly developed applications, they probably prefer someone with an OCAJP/OCPJP8 certification rather than an OCAJP/OCPJP7 certification. But as I have already said many times: a certification won't guarantee you a job at all. But it might make the difference between some equivalent candidates. It shows different positive aspects for a programmer: eager to learn, want to study and improve your knowledge (in your own time), you are up for a challenge, you have an eye for details,... But you probably not get a job just because you are certified. So a certification is never a guarantee for a job, but it may help turn the scale in your favor.

So a company is not only looking at your certifications but the total package (experiences of other technologies, your salary expectations, your personality,...) is considered when they have to decide. And a company knows of course too if you have passed the OCPJP7 certification, you'll probably be able to pass the upgrade to OCPJP8 exam as well
 
nick woodward
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i mean, both of your opinions are great - between here and enthuware, you're the major factors in me passing either exam - but in my position, with an OCA7 exam (booked by credit card, not voucher), and little experience, does it seem worth pushing it back for java 8? i'm getting high 80s on enthuware 7 now, i'm not sure if it's worth the extra time and hassle to go for 8.

it might save me a couple of hundred quid down the line if i ever had to do the upgrade (and i'm happy to do it over redoing the OCA8 - i'd rather know things inside out!), but this all seems rather distant....

- the scenario where it swings employment due to development versions is a long, long way off.
 
Jeanne Boyarsky
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I think you should take the exam you paid for already! The difference between no certification and having one is WAY bigger than 7 vs 8.
 
Roel De Nijs
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Paul Anilprem wrote:Lambdas are the in-thing in Java right now and present a good opportunity for the candidate to impress the employer.

True! But if they keep developing using Java 7, your Lamdas knowledge is not very useful as you can't use it.

Paul Anilprem wrote:I just don't see any good reason for a candidate to take an old certification when a newer one is available. There is little scope for you to spin it positively in an interview.

I totally disagree (based on my personal experiences)! In interviews during my carreer (both employee and freelance), I got very few questions about my certifications. And if I got a question, it was a technical one (to verify I'm not lying about the certification), not about why I decided to take OCAJP7 (while OCAJP8 was already available). And if you really should get the question to ask why you are OCPJP7 (and not OCPJP8) certified, you could easily reply: "When I decided to get certified, the OCAJP8 was just released and therefore only study guides existed for the OCAJP7 existed. So I chose for the OCAJP7 certification. Some months later I started my preparation for the OCPJP7 exam and although the OCPJP8 was already released too, Oracle doesn't allow to combine different version certifications so I had to choose for the OCPJP7 exam. As a developer you need to keep studying and improving your knowledge on a daily basis, so I'll be happy to take the upgrade to OCPJP8 exam". And you'll have aced that question!

Kind regards,
Roel
 
nick woodward
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I think you should take the exam you paid for already! The difference between no certification and having one is WAY bigger than 7 vs 8.


are you sure? there's a certain book i would definitely buy for the OCA 8

in all seriousness, i was suggesting cancelling the OCA7 for a refund (which is why i mentioned a CC vs a voucher) and then paying for the OCA8. But I don't really know how quickly I could get up to speed. Anything more than a week or two is probably not worth it at this stage.

 
nick woodward
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Roel De Nijs wrote:
I totally disagree (based on my personal experiences)! In interviews during my carreer (both employee and freelance), I got very few questions about my certifications. And if I got a question, it was a technical one (to verify I'm not lying about the certification), not about why I decided to take OCAJP7 (while OCAJP8 was already available). And if you really should get the question to ask why you are OCPJP7 (and not OCPJP8) certified, you could easily reply: "When I decided to get certified, the OCAJP8 was just released and therefore only study guides existed for the OCAJP7 existed. So I chose for the OCAJP7 certification. Some months later I started my preparation for the OCPJP7 exam and although the OCPJP8 was already released too, Oracle doesn't allow to combine different version certifications so I had to choose for the OCPJP7 exam. As a developer you need to keep studying and improving your knowledge on a daily basis, so I'll be happy to take the upgrade to OCPJP8 exam". And you'll have aced that question!

Kind regards,
Roel


this is what i was thinking on balance - at my level, i don't think its much of an issue. if i was starting out, or midway, i'd go for 8. but for now i don't think it really matters.
 
Roel De Nijs
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nick woodward wrote:but in my position, with an OCA7 exam (booked by credit card, not voucher), and little experience, does it seem worth pushing it back for java 8? i'm getting high 80s on enthuware 7 now, i'm not sure if it's worth the extra time and hassle to go for 8.

Definitely not! Although you could probably easily cancel your exam and rebook and OCA8 exam, you should take the exam where you feel the most comfortable with. And if that's OCAJP7, you should definitely go for that one. No doubt!

PS. Nice to see you are hitting high 80s on Enthuware
 
Paul Anilprem
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Roel De Nijs wrote:
Paul Anilprem wrote:Lambdas are the in-thing in Java right now and present a good opportunity for the candidate to impress the employer.

True! But if they keep developing using Java 7, your Lamdas knowledge is not very useful as you can't use it.

You are not taking a certification because some XYZ company is using that technology. You are taking a certification because you what to show that you are 1. serious about your craft. 2. capable of learning new stuff 3. know the suff you are talking about.


nick woodward wrote:

this is what i was thinking on balance - at my level, i don't think its much of an issue. if i was starting out, or midway, i'd go for 8. but for now i don't think it really matters.

You might want to see how it plays out in an interview -

You : I just took and passed OCAJP 7 certification?
Interviewer: Oh really? That's great. So know about lambdas then...
You: No, unfortunately 7 doesn't cover lambdas.
I'viewer: Oh, so why didn't you take OCA8?
You: No study guide for the exam was available for it

Really? you want to go with that reason? you are basically saying that you can't learn something if there is no prepackaged, ready to eat, explained in an easy to understand fashion, material available even though there are tons of articles and tutorials about it. Interviewer is thinking, what are you going to do if some problem comes up? Will you need hand holding or you can take it head on?

The only saving grace here would be if the new version came out may be within a few weeks of you taking the older version.
 
Jeanne Boyarsky
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nick woodward wrote:
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I think you should take the exam you paid for already! The difference between no certification and having one is WAY bigger than 7 vs 8.


are you sure? there's a certain book i would definitely buy for the OCA 8

And that's how you know my advice isn't biased .

Seriously, though. You've already started studying. You've already booked the exam. I think you should use your momentum and pass the OCA 7.

I do think you should learn about Java 8 lambdas/functional programming, but you can do that separately from the exam. ("Java 8 for the Really Impatient" is a great book!)
 
Paul Anilprem
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:
nick woodward wrote:
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I think you should take the exam you paid for already! The difference between no certification and having one is WAY bigger than 7 vs 8.


are you sure? there's a certain book i would definitely buy for the OCA 8

And that's how you know my advice isn't biased .

Seriously, though. You've already started studying. You've already booked the exam. I think you should use your momentum and pass the OCA 7.

I do think you should learn about Java 8 lambdas/functional programming, but you can do that separately from the exam. ("Java 8 for the Really Impatient" is a great book!)

That is certainly a good approach.
 
nick woodward
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Roel De Nijs wrote:
nick woodward wrote:but in my position, with an OCA7 exam (booked by credit card, not voucher), and little experience, does it seem worth pushing it back for java 8? i'm getting high 80s on enthuware 7 now, i'm not sure if it's worth the extra time and hassle to go for 8.

Definitely not! Although you could probably easily cancel your exam and rebook and OCA8 exam, you should take the exam where you feel the most comfortable with. And if that's OCAJP7, you should definitely go for that one. No doubt!

PS. Nice to see you are hitting high 80s on Enthuware


it's definitely not guaranteed - i took the first 3 around 6 months ago and although I don't remember any of the questions, but i guess it's a possibility subconciously. having said that i got 92 in mala's mock, understand most of the finer details and am now easily within the time limit

i do think you're right though, in my (inexperienced) position i think i'm better off taking the exam i'm comfortable with and doing well than getting a more average score on a newer exam.

 
nick woodward
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:
nick woodward wrote:
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I think you should take the exam you paid for already! The difference between no certification and having one is WAY bigger than 7 vs 8.


are you sure? there's a certain book i would definitely buy for the OCA 8

And that's how you know my advice isn't biased .

Seriously, though. You've already started studying. You've already booked the exam. I think you should use your momentum and pass the OCA 7.

I do think you should learn about Java 8 lambdas/functional programming, but you can do that separately from the exam. ("Java 8 for the Really Impatient" is a great book!)


i was thinking about getting horstmann's core java I and II, i've read a sample and like his writting style. i'll definitely look at that book too. the overlap between certification books and general knowledge books is a bit strange though.

also, you're OCP book is out now isn't it? how obvious is the definition between 7 and 8? I've K&B's book, and will get mala's new one, but wouldn't mind another reference - have always liked your explanations.

nick
 
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Paul Anilprem wrote:Really? you want to go with that reason? you are basically saying that you can't learn something if there is no prepackaged, ready to eat, explained in an easy to understand fashion, material available even though there are tons of articles and tutorials about it. Interviewer is thinking, what are you going to do if some problem comes up? Will you need hand holding or you can take it head on?

That's a lot of poppycock! Certainly if you consider a junior programmer/developer.

99% (if not more) of all developers will have used a study guide to prepare for the exam. And the interviewer will know that as well, because the company library will have several copies of each available study guide, purchased when their developers took a certification exam. And if that's not convincing enough, you can easily explain that you as a junior developer have used many online articles and tutorials (and an awesome forum ) as complementary resources. And in the end you were very happy to have decided to use a study guide as main resource, because during your preparation you have noticed that some of this online resources were contradictory and some had even incorrect explanations. Otherwise you might have learnt it the wrong way due to your inexperience to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
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nick woodward wrote:also, you're OCP book is out now isn't it? how obvious is the definition between 7 and 8? I've K&B's book, and will get mala's new one, but wouldn't mind another reference - have always liked your explanations.

Yes, Jeanne and Scott their OCP8 study guide is available.

But I would not recommend using a study guide for another version than the one you are preparing for. Because not only the covered topics might differ, but there might also exist minor differences between both versions. And that might become very confusing. One example of such a very tiny difference: in Java 7 you must mark a local variable final when used in an (anonymous) inner class. In Java 8 that's not required anymore: the code will compile if the value of the variable remains unchanged, but you are not required to mak this variable as final. So in Java 8 it's ok to use a variable in an (anonymous) inner class which is implicitly final, but in Java 7 this variable needs to be explicitly marked final. Some code snippets to illustrate. In Java 8 this code snippet will compile successfullyBut In Java 7 exactly the same code will give a compiler errorIn Java 7 the variable needs to be explicitly marked final to successfully compile the class

Hope it helps!
Kind regards,
Roel
 
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nick woodward wrote:also, you're OCP book is out now isn't it? how obvious is the definition between 7 and 8? I've K&B's book, and will get mala's new one, but wouldn't mind another reference - have always liked your explanations.

Thanks! For the OCA 7, I think it is ok to have an OCA 8 book as there aren't many differences. (Mainly new topics and the difference in "final" placement.) For the OCP, there are a lot of differences in topics as you can see in this mapping. I actually contributed some sections to K&B 7 so you'll get to read a little of my explanations in there .
 
nick woodward
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Paul Anilprem wrote:
You might want to see how it plays out in an interview -

You : I just took and passed OCAJP 7 certification?
Interviewer: Oh really? That's great. So know about lambdas then...
You: No, unfortunately 7 doesn't cover lambdas.
I'viewer: Oh, so why didn't you take OCA8?
You: No study guide for the exam was available for it

Really? you want to go with that reason? you are basically saying that you can't learn something if there is no prepackaged, ready to eat, explained in an easy to understand fashion, material available even though there are tons of articles and tutorials about it. Interviewer is thinking, what are you going to do if some problem comes up? Will you need hand holding or you can take it head on?

The only saving grace here would be if the new version came out may be within a few weeks of you taking the older version.


i understand what you're getting at, but this scenario seems to exclude me actually learning java 8 features outside the scope of certification - which i'd be happy to do.

i just think i'm leaning towards what Jeanne and Roel have said - for reasons of momentum, and the fact that I'm unlikely to be interviewing solely on the strength of an OCA exam. besides that, i think its better to get a great score on OCA7 than rush the OCA8.

in terms of the question - i'd probably answer that i knew and purchased the content for the OCA7, understood that certifications are a small part of the puzzle in terms of employment, and wanted to get the exam done so that i could focus on several personal projects in order to demonstrate practical skills to counter a pretty academic CV.

maybe not the greatest answer, but i could've passed the OCA7 6 months ago, and still be in the same position RE the OCP7 exam. i think the point is that unless i'm in a position where i need to be at the cutting edge of the java certifications, i think they'll mainly be a way to show aptitude and a certain level of proficiency, rather than a specific selling point or a tool to fulfil a certain corporate need.

Jeanne - oh yeah, there are quite a few new topics...! I hadn't realised. And yes, I read the beginning of K&B and heard you'd contributed a lot to the second half especially. I look forward to it.


Nick


edit: thanks for the explanation Roel!
 
Paul Anilprem
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nick woodward wrote:
Paul Anilprem wrote:
You might want to see how it plays out in an interview -

You : I just took and passed OCAJP 7 certification?
Interviewer: Oh really? That's great. So know about lambdas then...
You: No, unfortunately 7 doesn't cover lambdas.
I'viewer: Oh, so why didn't you take OCA8?
You: No study guide for the exam was available for it

Really? you want to go with that reason? you are basically saying that you can't learn something if there is no prepackaged, ready to eat, explained in an easy to understand fashion, material available even though there are tons of articles and tutorials about it. Interviewer is thinking, what are you going to do if some problem comes up? Will you need hand holding or you can take it head on?

The only saving grace here would be if the new version came out may be within a few weeks of you taking the older version.


i understand what you're getting at, but this scenario seems to exclude me actually learning java 8 features outside the scope of certification - which i'd be happy to do.

 
Roel De Nijs
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nick woodward wrote:And yes, I read the beginning of K&B and heard you'd contributed a lot to the second half especially. I look forward to it.

Heard? Do you have a talking study guide? That definitely must be a very unique (expensive) edition

nick woodward wrote:edit: thanks for the explanation Roel!

You are welcome!
 
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Roel De Nijs wrote:
nick woodward wrote:And yes, I read the beginning of K&B and heard you'd contributed a lot to the second half especially. I look forward to it.

Heard? Do you have a talking study guide? That definitely must be a very unique (expensive) edition

Screenreaders can make any book talk .
 
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Screenreaders can make any book talk .

Hmm, I didn't consider them as I have never used them. I doubt if a screenreader is very useful for a certification study guide (or other technical book) due to all those code snippets...
 
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Roel De Nijs wrote:
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Screenreaders can make any book talk .

Hmm, I didn't consider them as I have never used them. I doubt if a screenreader is very useful for a certification study guide (or other technical book) due to all those code snippets...

You don't need code to start the "fun" of a screenreader on tech content. The acronyms are enough to do that!
 
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