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This Week's GiveAway

 
mister krabs
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This week we are giving away 4 copies of the book "BEA WebLogic 7.0 Application Server Deployment and Administration Handbook".
The best part, the author Aaron Mulder, will be on line to answer your questions.
Thanks to the good people at Wrox for the books.
For information on Qualifiaction criteria, please read the Book Giveaway page.
Remember, posts in this thread will not be eligible for the giveaway. So say, "Hi" to Aaron here and then ask your questions in a new thread!
Your book promotion team,
John Wetherbie and Thomas Paul
[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
 
Rancher
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Welcome Aaron, and good luck with your book!
 
Ranch Hand
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Welcome Aaron, great to have you here!
 
Ranch Hand
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Welcome Aaron! Thanks for participating, I look forward to seeing your responses.
 
Greenhorn
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Hi,
Does this book come with a CD containing a trial version of Weblogic 7?
Thank you.
 
Author
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Greetings all, sorry for the late start, but I'll be around this week to answer questions and talk about the book.
In response to the question above, the book itself doesn't ship with WebLogic 7, but you can download a copy from BEA's Home Page.
 
Ranch Hand
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Hi,
When there is a change in the jsp page,i have to restart the weblogic server in order for the change to take place . Is this the way to do that or is there any other way?
 
Ranch Hand
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Hi,
Wellcome Aaron. Well, I have just started Websphere and want to have good hands-on practice with WS. But sometimes i get confused between Weblogic & Websphere, that which to use why? Secondly, why nor software giants approachs towords unified IDE, like Eclipse. Somethimes i get frustate when i take lots of seminars on different IDE's. Like IBM guyz said, WS will be the future development IDE. Haven't took BEA seminar, but i hope that they will also says the same. If this remains the case, then i tink big time of developers will be spend in learning IDE's rather the real teachnologies. Please throw some light on this issue.
Bye,
Viki.
 
Ranch Hand
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I tend to agree, but its all about marketplace.
Some leavers fall off, some manifest into others, and a few stay.
Looking forward to a copy of your book Aaron.
Rama
 
Aaron Mulder
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Let's see, JSPs and IDEs...
I could swear I just read another thread here on the JSP issue... You should be able to get it to reread JSPs without restarting the server. Some tips are: check the jsp-descriptor element in the web app DD, where you can control how often it checks for updated files. Deploy the web app as an expanded directory instead of an EAR. Make sure you've set the server for development mode instead of production mode in the startup script, etc.
I also gave my 2 cents on IDEs in another thread, but to address your specific point, I personally wouldn't commit to an IDE tied to an app server product, because, among other things, I work with more than one application server. Also, I think the app server companies do a better job of writing app servers, and the IDE companies a better job of writing IDEs, but YMMV.
My conclusion in the other thread was that there's probably an IDE that's a good fit for the way you work, whatever that is. I know people who swear by TextPad, Emacs, Visual SlickEdit, JBuilder, IntelliJ, Eclipse, etc. Never met anyone who swears by WAD (as opposed to at it), but hey, it could happen. Seriously, figure out whether you're a code guy, a model guy, a tweak every knob and dial guy, an "I must be able to download a Tetris plugin for my IDE" guy (yes, that's a real story), or whatever, and there's a product out there for you.
 
Aaron Mulder
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So looking at the IDE post, I didn't really answer the question of learning IDEs vs technologies. I guess my perspective is that if you don't understand the technology, what use is an IDE? Sure, it looks good in a sales call when the marketing person can develop a web service using such-and-such an IDE, but do you really want to deploy production applications developed by men in clown suits with a drag and drop tool?
Okay, perhaps going too far there, but it's been my experience that if the developers don't understand the technologies, the output is substandard. We're not yet to the point where you can say "Computer: please write me a program to accept electronic order entry over the web and feed the data to my AIX-based order processing system making sure the call center has full access to the order status as it progresses to the inventory system and the shipping system, and be sure to secure all the credit card information against unauthorized access."
I'll stop now.
 
Chris Mathews
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Originally posted by Aaron Mulder:
So looking at the IDE post, I didn't really answer the question of learning IDEs vs technologies. I guess my perspective is that if you don't understand the technology, what use is an IDE? Sure, it looks good in a sales call when the marketing person can develop a web service using such-and-such an IDE, but do you really want to deploy production applications developed by men in clown suits with a drag and drop tool?
Okay, perhaps going too far there, but it's been my experience that if the developers don't understand the technologies, the output is substandard. We're not yet to the point where you can say "Computer: please write me a program to accept electronic order entry over the web and feed the data to my AIX-based order processing system making sure the call center has full access to the order status as it progresses to the inventory system and the shipping system, and be sure to secure all the credit card information against unauthorized access."
I'll stop now.


I completely agree. The Hello World examples always work great, but when it comes to real world requirements most of these tools fall short. At that point, if you don't know the technology then you are forced to work the solution around the tool's limitations and it all goes to crap.
This is also why I am very skeptical about the whole MDA approach. It sounds great on paper, but real systems don't live on paper. MDA also seems to have a high degree of vendor lock-in at this point in time...
 
Ranch Hand
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Welcome Aaron!Looking forward to winning ur book.
 
Ranch Hand
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hi Aaron,
Tell me a simple thing, i want to master ejb and weblogic, i am already doing projects on ejb, but i want to know in and out of it, so what do u suggest how i should proceed, i don't want to beat abound the bush, i want to stud in ejb, as i just love the java technology and the complexity of all it softwares related to it, java is very simple, but products are
, so i want to be good at both sides of the coin.. help me
 
Ranch Hand
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Hi Aaron,

You should be able to get it to reread JSPs without restarting the server


How about reread Class file?
steffy
 
sunitha reghu
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Hi Aaron,
I do remember abt a WebAppComponetRefreshTool bea docs , but now i couldnt locate where i read abt it. With that tool i will be able to modify the jsp pages while the application is running something like that. Correct me if im wrong.
 
Aaron Mulder
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Okay, EJB studs, class file reloading, and a JSP file reloading tool...
If you really want to become an EJB stud, I have two suggestions. 1) Read the EJB spec 2) Contribute to an open-source EJB server. The EJB spec is a pretty beastly read, but it is, ultimately, the final authority on how things should work. If you read and understand that, you're well on your way. But the best way to get a true understanding of what's going on is to be involved in the implementation of an app server. That way, you really see both sides of the spec, understand why some inobvious decisions were made, see why some servers compile EJB stubs while others use dynamic proxies or bytecode generation, etc. While you'll probably never see the source code for WebLogic, you can poke around with OpenEJB, JBoss, JOnAS, etc. Of course, it goes without saying that you have to write a fair number of EJB apps too, to flex the spec and see where it works well and where it doesn't. If you've never used a stateful session bean, are you really an EJB stud?
Class file reloading: You should be able to have WebLogic update EJBs without restarting the server. For example, you could change an EJB implementation class. I'm not sure you can change the EJB interface, we'd have to try it out and see. Again, you're better off deploying exploded directories rather than EARs if you want this to work in the best way, though you can also just copy a new EAR over and have it redeploy the whole app. Personally, I've had some trouble with redeploying entire EARs, so I usually either work with an exploded app or restart the server. Again, be sure the server runs in development mode.
On JSP file reloading, you shouldn't need a tool. For example, deploy an exploded application, and in your weblogic.xml DD for the web app, set the pageCheckSeconds to 0 in the jsp-descriptor
element. Then you can just copy a new version of the JSP to the exploded directory tree when it changes. Again, make sure you're in development mode.
 
Vikrama Sanjeeva
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Hi,

Originally posted by Aaron Mulder:
...Okay, perhaps going too far there, but it's been my experience that if the developers don't understand the technologies, the output is substandard. We're not yet to the point where you can say "Computer: please write me a program to accept electronic order entry over the web and feed the data to my AIX-based order processing system making sure the call center has full access to the order status as it progresses to the inventory system and the shipping system, and be sure to secure all the credit card information against unauthorized access."


I partially agree with you. There is no doubt that one has to concentrate and focus on technicality of technology rather bothering about IDE's. But the problem arises when one needs to implement technology using IDE. For this as far as i have observed that some good time of developer is spend over understanding IDE's. Just to say that why don't IDE giants looks for one unified international IDE?
Bye,
Viki.
 
Aaron Mulder
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But the problem arises when one needs to implement technology using IDE. For this as far as i have observed that some good time of developer is spend over understanding IDE's.


Well, we're drifting here, but I guess my 2 cents is that a developer shouldn't need to go through that process very often. That is, it's tough to take a developer from project to project and make them learn a new IDE each time. Likewise, it's tough when a product is to tied to an IDE that you can't use your IDE of choice with it (cough, WebSphere). Different people work different ways, shouldn't they be able to use the IDE that best suits their needs? Since I last rambled about IDEs, I've talked to another guy who can't understand why we don't all user NetBeans, and all I can say is "to each their own".
That said, it would be nice to establish some conventions for key mappings and so on across vendors. I wonder if the JCP would allow a JSR for common IDE functionality?
 
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