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java ee 8 delay - thoughts?

 
author & internet detective
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I was asked what I think of Java EE 8 - in crisis over an email. My reply follows. What do y'all think?

  • Reza is awesome. It's nice to see him involved in this
  • I think it is good for Oracle to feel pressure.
  • Oracle has already said that they plan to follow the curve. Which amounts to coping features from Spring. So the delayed of Java EE 8 doesn't worry me. It's taken a long time for Java 9 though which is more important.
  • We regularly hear "demise of Java" posts. I don't think that's what is happening here. I do think Oracle is losing credibility and other JVM languages could gain more traction.


  • There's also a follow up blog postby the same person.
     
    Java Cowboy
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    Despite what some people have been saying, Java is not going to disappear anytime soon. It's still the most popular programming language and platform in the world, and many companies from small to large have invested deeply into the Java programming language and platform. They're not going to throw that all away.

    I'm not following the development of Java EE 8 closely, so I'm not up to date on what is happening exactly there, but apparently many people who are involved have some reason to be concerned.

    The development of the Java programming language, Java SE and Java EE are not the places where innovation takes place - things don't get solidified into the language or the SE or EE platform until they have proven themselves in other places. (If you look at the features proposed for Java EE 8, for example, there's nothing really new in there - support for JSON, MVC 1.0 etc. are all features that have already existed for a very long time in open source libraries). So, the world is not dependent on Oracle for innovation with regard to Java.

    It's not good if Oracle doesn't do a good job of maintaining and developing the Java programming language and platform, but I think it will not stop most companies using Java. There are more than enough high-quality and proven solutions besides Java EE, such as the Spring Framework and the many thousands of other open source libraries, frameworks and products written in Java.
     
    Rancher
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    I concur completely with Jesper. We adopted Java as the company standard for platform development some 10 or so years ago, and all indications are that there are no plans whatsoever to change that any time soon. Further, I believe Jesper is right in that there has been a lot of investment in developing with Java. Companies are simply not going to just toss that aside just because there are any rumblings about Java's demise (or however they are referring to it). It reminds me of the rumours I saw flying around about the end of older platforms like Cobol (I don't have an exact source to quote that on, I am going by what I heard amongst other developers and browsing around forums on the web). Many, many companies spent millions (or more) over the years and still rely on legacy systems built on older platforms like Cobol and Java (here in Canada I think of the banks in particular, who seem to be very hesitant to move to newer platforms - I am guessing because of the potentially enormous migration costs). Anyway, I digress.

    My only hope is Oracle does not "drive Java into the ground". In some ways I miss the days when Sun was at the helm with the Java language.

    Excellent topic Jeanne!
     
    Ranch Hand
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    "Other JVM languages could gain traction"
    I think that is already happening. But it doesn't mean the demise of java.
    I also liked it with sun in charge. But I trust oracle so far.
    Hell, oracle was the 800 pound gorilla that Microsoft took on ;^)
    I'm currently learning python and ruby, which both have versions that use the JVM.
     
    Jesper de Jong
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    Saw a new article on Ars Technica today:

    How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

    Ars Technica wrote:
    Stop me if you've heard this one before: Oracle has quietly pulled funding and development efforts away from a community-driven technology where customers and partners have invested time and code. It all seems to be happening for no reason other than the tech isn't currently printing money.


     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    Not Oracle, but vendors are still moving forward. If RedHat and IBM are both moving forward, I'm not worried about the lack of commercial support.
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    And Oracle finally replied. took them long enough to realize this was something they should reply to!
     
    Jesper de Jong
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    So they're saying that they intend to support Java EE 8 and that there will be more details about their plan at JavaOne in September.
     
    Marshal
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    I am not convinced that link said anything. It was 99% empty words.
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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