• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Paul Clapham
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
Sheriffs:
  • Junilu Lacar
  • Knute Snortum
  • Henry Wong
Saloon Keepers:
  • Ron McLeod
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
Bartenders:
  • Frits Walraven
  • Joe Ess
  • salvin francis

does earth revolve around sun?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 4702
9
Scala Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I read that it cannot be proved if earth revolves around sun, or sun revolves around earth.
 
Bartender
Posts: 598
26
Oracle Notepad Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.

Anyway, it's just a matter of perspective, based on your area of reference.
 
Marshal
Posts: 67334
170
Mac Mac OS X IntelliJ IDE jQuery Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Everything is relative. So what's the frame of reference?
 
Java Cowboy
Posts: 16084
88
Android Scala IntelliJ IDE Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Randall Twede wrote:I read that it cannot be proved if earth revolves around sun, or sun revolves around earth.


Not everything that you read on the web is true. There are even people who seriously believe the Earth is flat.
 
Marshal
Posts: 66949
255
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jesper de Jong wrote:. . . There are even people who seriously believe the Earth is flat.

Are you trying to tell me the Earth is round ?

Actually scientific method has never proven anything. Experiments do not prove anything; they are actually attempts to disprove something. All the evidence for the earth being flat has proven incorrect, and all the evidence for the sun revolving round the earth has also proven incorrect. The ancient Egyptians knew that shadows were a different length in different parts of the country, so the curvature of the earth has been known about for well over 2000 years.
 
Brian Tkatch
Bartender
Posts: 598
26
Oracle Notepad Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Campbell Ritchie wrote:The ancient Egyptians knew that shadows were a different length in different parts of the country, so the curvature of the earth has been known about for well over 2000 years.


??

Mayhap you are referring to Pythagoras who taught the Earth was spherical, Eratosthenes who measured the circumference of the Earth, or Aristotle who made the shadow observation. None of them were Egyptian, and all lived a little more than 2000 years ago. More at: Spherical Earth. The talk page is kind of fun.
 
Campbell Ritchie
Marshal
Posts: 66949
255
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
YOu are probably right; correct observations and wrong locations.
 
lowercase baba
Posts: 12781
51
Chrome Java Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"proof" is a difficult concept in science.  I think Campbell is correct - Science does't prove anything...but they do disprove a lot of stuff.  Newton established the laws of motion, which we were convinced were right...until evidence was found that in some situations (i.e. near the speed of light, or near super-high gravity wells) the laws don't work any more. So a new theory was developed by Einstein that explained all the evidence...until it didn't. Then Hawking came up with a newer theory...(note: i may have the names/specific concepts wrong, but the point is valid).

But take the earth/sun idea posited here.  Assume the Sun DOES go around the Earth. And that mars goes around the Earth. Clearly if you look in the sky, that's what you see. But if you start tracking Mars in the sky over time, you'll find that there's a period of time each year or so when it goes backwards.  People came up with all kinds of interesting ideas and complicated mathematical formulas to try and explain this...but once you shift to the idea that the planets go around the sun, the observations make sense and the math becomes MUCH simpler.

Is that proof? No. absolutely not.  But it is strong evidence supporting it. If you want to believe the Sun orbits the earth, you have to do a lot of "hand waving" to explain some rather strange observations.

For a very interesting and fun read (if you like this kind of stuff), I'd highly recommend the book Big Bang, by Simon Singh (actually, i'd recommend EVERY book by Singh). In it he traces how we got from "God created the universe" to the current state of the Big Bang Theory - the evolution of the theory of how the universe was created.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 385
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Brian Tkatch wrote:Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.

Anyway, it's just a matter of perspective, based on your area of reference.



That isn't actually correct.

You're right when you mention the barycentre - however, the barycentre of the earth and sun actually lies within the sun itself. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that the sun rotates around the earth - it doesn't.
 
Brian Tkatch
Bartender
Posts: 598
26
Oracle Notepad Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ahmed Bin S wrote:

Brian Tkatch wrote:Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.

Anyway, it's just a matter of perspective, based on your area of reference.



That isn't actually correct.

You're right when you mention the barycentre - however, the barycentre of the earth and sun actually lies within the sun itself. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that the sun rotates around the earth - it doesn't.


Relative to the Earth, the sun revolves around that barycenter, regardless of where that point resides. Of course, we might just be disagreeing on what "revolves" means.
 
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Posts: 16084
88
Android Scala IntelliJ IDE Spring Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ahmed Bin S wrote:You're right when you mention the barycentre - however, the barycentre of the earth and sun actually lies within the sun itself. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that the sun rotates around the earth - it doesn't.


But he didn't say that the Sun rotates around the Earth. He said that they both rotate around the barycentre. That's not the same as saying that the Sun rotates around the Earth or vice versa.
 
Ahmed Bin S
Ranch Hand
Posts: 385
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jesper de Jong wrote:

Ahmed Bin S wrote:You're right when you mention the barycentre - however, the barycentre of the earth and sun actually lies within the sun itself. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that the sun rotates around the earth - it doesn't.


But he didn't say that the Sun rotates around the Earth. He said that they both rotate around the barycentre. That's not the same as saying that the Sun rotates around the Earth or vice versa.



Sigh. He wrote (emphasis is mine):

Brian Tkatch wrote:
Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.



Rotating around each other means sun rotates around earth and earth rotates around sun. This is incorrect.
 
Ahmed Bin S
Ranch Hand
Posts: 385
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Brian Tkatch wrote:

Ahmed Bin S wrote:

Brian Tkatch wrote:Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.

Anyway, it's just a matter of perspective, based on your area of reference.



That isn't actually correct.

You're right when you mention the barycentre - however, the barycentre of the earth and sun actually lies within the sun itself. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that the sun rotates around the earth - it doesn't.


Relative to the Earth, the sun revolves around that barycenter, regardless of where that point resides. Of course, we might just be disagreeing on what "revolves" means.



Yes, rotate around the barycentre.

So the first part of what you wrote was correct. This part:

Brian Tkatch wrote:Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.



And the second part that you wrote was incorrect. This part:

Brian Tkatch wrote:Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.

 
Brian Tkatch
Bartender
Posts: 598
26
Oracle Notepad Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ahmed Bin S wrote:And the second part that you wrote was incorrect. This part:

Brian Tkatch wrote:Actually, they both rotate around the barycenter, so, they rotate around each other.


In relation to the question, and especially after mentioning what the rotation actually is (considered), i believe it to be correct. Standing on it's own, you can make the case that it is incorrect, but we might just be arguing terminology at that point.
 
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Posts: 12781
51
Chrome Java Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ahmed Bin S wrote: however, the barycentre of the earth and sun actually lies within the sun itself.


The barycentre moves depending on the alignment of all the planets. It can be outside the photosphere, but I don't think it ever goes outside the corona.  So even "lies within the sun itself" depends on how you define "the sun".
 
Brian Tkatch
Bartender
Posts: 598
26
Oracle Notepad Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

fred rosenberger wrote:depends on how you define "the sun".


That brings this ridiculous scene to mind:

 
sunglasses are a type of coolness prosthetic. Check out the sunglasses on this tiny ad:
Java file APIs (DOC, XLS, PDF, and many more)
https://products.aspose.com/total/java
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!