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Form designers and GUI tools

 
jon ninpoja
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what is your guys thoughts on gui tools that come with the ide's?
i know netbeans has a gui designer tool
and intelij has a form designer or something

are you better off going into swing/awt/javafx directly or,can you use these tools?...is it considered cheating?

just wanted to get some thoughts

thanks
 
Junilu Lacar
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jon ninpoja wrote:
are you better off going into swing/awt/javafx directly or,can you use these tools?...is it considered cheating?

just wanted to get some thoughts

In what way would it be cheating? Like if you drove 25 miles to work instead of running there, cheating? Or using the tools when your instructor explicitly told you not to, cheating?

There's merit in learning how to do things the hard way but when you're trying to get something done, using tools that make the work easier, faster, and better quality is not cheating in my book. That's just being a professional.
 
Rob Camick
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Don't use the IDE to generated your forms. You spend your time learning the IDE and not learning Java. Also, if you do then the code will not be maintainable if you ever switch to another IDE.

Use the IDE for its other features like debugging and so on.
 
Dave Tolls
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For GUI frameworks that were designed with some form of designer in mind (JavaFX, Android, for example) it's less of an issue as they are normally written so you can then tweak the functionality easily in the code.
Indeed, they're normally some form of XML descriptor for the layout.

For the likes of Swing, where a designer has been bolted on, outside of proof of concept you get into the situation Rob mentions.  They are IDE specific.  And normally ugly as anything as the layout is not some external file (eg XML), it's often shoe-horned into the code itself.
 
Knute Snortum
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Writing your GUI in code versus using a some sort of screen builder is a choice that has consequences either way.  I like building things in code just because I like things self-contained.  However, for all but the most simple GUIs, you are going to find it gets very tedious to write everything in code.  Using a screen builder helps with complicated GUIs; you can see what you're building easily and it is faster to get up and running.

So I would try a simple GUI all in code first, then pick an IDE and a screen builder and see how that works.

Note: if you're going to use JavaFX, you have a third option: create an FXML file.  But almost nobody does this by hand; they use SceneBuilder (NetBeans has this built in).
 
Carey Brown
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For Swing layout I use "WindowsBuilder" inside of Eclipse. For many years I used "Jigloo" but that is no longer available.
 
jon ninpoja
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what options do i have with intelij?

do you guys like intelij?
 
Knute Snortum
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IntelliJ is great, it's just expensive when you have NetBeans and Eclipse for $0/month, rather than $15/month.

...okay, there's a free option, I'm looking into it, but no web development is a deal-breaker.
 
Carey Brown
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Knute Snortum wrote:IntelliJ is great, it's just expensive when you have NetBeans and Eclipse for $0/month, rather than $15/month.

...okay, there's a free option, I'm looking into it, but no web development is a deal-breaker.
Career wise, 100% of my consulting jobs over 25 years required Eclipse (Denver area). YMMV.
 
jon ninpoja
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now thats intersting

so should i switch to eclipse?

i thought it wouldnt matter what IDE you use,just that you know what you doing
do companies prefer you to know/use eclipse?
 
Campbell Ritchie
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jon ninpoja wrote:. . .
i thought it wouldnt matter what IDE you use,just that you know what you doing
do companies prefer you to know/use eclipse?
I would have thought the different IDEs are similar enough to use that you can learn them all. Depends whether you are working for a company or contracting; in the latter case you will need more versatility to change IDE (or other tools) quickly.
 
jon ninpoja
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sorry campbell where should this topic have gone to instead of beginning java?
 
Knute Snortum
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It looks like IntelliJ has a GUI Designer -- I didn't look into it further.

BTW, I use Eclipse.
 
Knute Snortum
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jon ninpoja wrote:sorry campbell where should this topic have gone to instead of beginning java?

It's often a judgement call about when a topic is beginning or not.  Having a moderator move your topic is not anything you should worry about.
 
Dave Tolls
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Carey Brown wrote:Career wise, 100% of my consulting jobs over 25 years required Eclipse (Denver area). YMMV.


My current and prior two contracts have all been IntelliJ, interestingly enough (UK).
So that's, what, three years?
Not too sure how representative that is, though.

Prior to that it was almost entirely Eclipse, with a brief foray into Netbeans.

As far as I'm concerned they all pretty much do the same thing...
 
Campbell Ritchie
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jon ninpoja wrote:sorry campbell where should this topic have gone to instead of beginning java?
We used to have an instruction on the beginning forum saying that people would be penalised if they posted any difficult questions So we try to keep the beginning forum for easy questions only. Maybe this discussion would fit well in the IDEs forum. Fortunately we can now have the same discussion in two fora, so maybe you will appear in the IDEs forum too.
 
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