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More or less useless interviews  RSS feed

 
Jan de Boer
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What about this. I am getting invited for a job interview. I see the job description and technically it does not really fit. I come to the interview and ask, did you read my CV, I do not have experience in "Something". Yes, they read that.
A few days later, I get the response, we are not going further with you, reason your lack of experience in that same "Something". It costs me a free day and traveling time to go there too, you know. I would rather not have the interview at all then. What do you think, how can I avoid this? I have more things to do in my life...
 
Jesper de Jong
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But why did you go to the job interview if you could already see in the description that it did not really fit? How to avoid this: do some research beforehand to see if this is really a job that you would want, which fits with your experience and what you would want.
 
Liutauras Vilda
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Jan de Boer wrote:What do you think, how can I avoid this?

An arrogant answer 1. Don't apply to position where surgeon skills are needed, while your actual skills are of general practice doctor's.

Jan de Boer wrote:have more things to do in my life...

An arrogant answer 2. Do those "more" things.

Jokes aside. We don't go far with rudeness

Jan de Boer wrote:What do you think, how can I avoid this?

In general, majority of people, I think, are tend to make their CV's nicer than actually they could be. Now, regardless, for those bastards life gives more than for those honest people. Annoying, isn't it?

  • Rule number 1: don't tell things you are not asked about (in person). Meaning, if nobody asked you if you know thing X, don't tell once you step in a room, that you don't know X.
  • Rule number 2 (if you ignore rule number 1): Tell, I don't know the technology X well in details, but I know the rest of mentioned technologies really well, so I'll put extra effort to grasp X starting from the moment I saw a job advert.
  • Rule number 3: always tell the truth (about anything) and then see what happens. This is what I do usually, so I feel better in front of myself. But then it happens what happens to you in its weirdest way.


  • [Addition] I'm sorry, I thought it is a Meaningless Drivel forum. So some text doesn't really fit well.
     
    Stephan van Hulst
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    Maybe call ahead to ask why you were invited?
     
    Tim Moores
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    If it's not local to you, it might be a good idea to do the first round of interviews via phone or Skype. That's where it should be established whether or not you have the required technical skills.
     
    Jan de Boer
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    Jesper de Jong wrote:But why did you go to the job interview if you could already see in the description that it did not really fit?


    The recruiter sent me..

    I got an invitation, and after that I got the job description.
     
    Jan de Boer
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    Tim Moores wrote:If it's not local to you.


    No, it was near enough, and close to my daughter and I visited her, so, that is more or less okay, this time. I just want to avoid things like this in the future.
     
    Stephan van Hulst
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    That kind-of a backwards way to do things. Do many recruiters do this?
     
    Jan de Boer
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    In general, majority of people, I think, are tend to make their CV's nicer than actually they could be.


    I do not. I know I am not that good. Even worse, I take things off and make my CV uglier. I am less than my experience because I do a lot of non computer science things in my spare time. And I know that.
     
    Liutauras Vilda
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    Stephan van Hulst wrote:That kind-of a backwards way to do things. Do many recruiters do this?

    Yes. In nowadays, at least in London, situation seem to be terrible to me. Total mess. I always used to look for job directly via companies websites, but now things changed, many companies accepting people only from recruiters recommendations. Those recruiters it seems to me don't really care WHO. They just send you anywhere, as the more they will give to company to assess, the quicker it seems they will get their commission with minimum effort.

    That way everybody wastes their time.
     
    Liutauras Vilda
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    Many recruiters don't even mention company name. They just say, i.e. "a fintech company is looking for...". But what if one doesn't want to work for random company just to do the programming? For me for instance is important company itself, and I'm not happy to find that out at a latest stage. The reasons for that probably is, that recruiters are too in very competitive field, and don't want to reveal company names who are looking for potential employees to other recruiters, as they could offer their "assessed" people to them. Kindergarten in short.
     
    Stephan van Hulst
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    I don't get why companies buy into the whole recruiter thing anyway, most of the time they're terrible at their job, and even when they're not, they pull things like this and generally make things more difficult.

    As a programmer, I never respond to recruiters because I'm quite happy where I work now, and if I want to move on I'm pretty sure I could apply at a company without the help of a recruiter. There's more than enough work to be found here.
     
    Jan de Boer
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    Yes, I also would much rather talk directly to a company. But it seems companies want to use a recruiter.

    Anyway, I told the recruiter not to do this anymore. If the company wants some experience, and I do not have it, do not go pushing them to invite me anyway. I will also be critical towards the offers I get. If I see I do not have that certain experience, I will tell that to the recruiter and explicitly tell them, if the company does not want me, I do not want to go there for an interview.

    Although there are worse things in life... I wasted a day off for this! Okay, I also visited my daughter and that is always good, but, I do not want this nonsense again. Although yes, probably partly my fault too for half of it.
     
    Jesper de Jong
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    Liutauras Vilda wrote:The reasons for that probably is, that recruiters are too in very competitive field, and don't want to reveal company names who are looking for potential employees to other recruiters, as they could offer their "assessed" people to them.

    Or, when you are a freelancer, like me, they don't want to tell you the company name before you've signed some document with the recruiter otherwise the recruiter is afraid you'll apply at the company directly, which means they won't be in the middle catching money for every hour that you work.

    Jan de Boer wrote:Yes, I also would much rather talk directly to a company. But it seems companies want to use a recruiter.

    With regard to freelancers, one reason that companies would want to work with a recruiter or agency is that the company itself doesn't want to deal with contracts and other administration work for all the different freelancers they hire, so they sometimes choose an agency so that they only have to sign 1 contract (with the agency) to hire a bunch of people.

    If you're a freelancer, it's much better, when you're looking for a new freelance job, to look around yourself and see if you can get a direct contact at a company. Since there's a huge demand for good, experienced developers it's not that hard. Agencies maybe make it a little bit easier to find a job but all they do after that is catch part of your money every month (sometimes up to 20% of your rate), for which they have to do next to nothing. One of the lesson's I've learned is: ask the agency and company what the margin of the agency is before you accept a job. I've had a nasty surprise when I heard how much an agency was making on me, while basically the only thing they had to do each month is pass my invoice to the customer with their hefty mark-up added to it.
     
    Jan de Boer
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    Jesper, to be frank, I am old, I do not have the right experience. It is reasonably hard for me to get a job. I can get a job when I focus on it, put effort in it, after a few months, but for me it is not like I can pick the jobs from a list where I should like to work. I am just not that good, okay..
     
    Liutauras Vilda
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    Jan, my sympathy is with you, have a cow.
     
    Jan de Boer
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    LOL, thanks for the cow, maybe I can be a farmer now!

    Well, the thing actually is, if my CV does not match, I also most probably cannot make it plausible that I can obtain that knowledge quickly either, so it is no use going to the interview. So as a recruiter don't push me to an interview where I 'might have a chance' because I know I don't.
     
    Liutauras Vilda
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    Many companies are looking for various personality people with various skills at different levels. Some people may be with less knowledge or with less talent,  but they could be a very good team members, which glue the team and improve its atmosphere. My point is, don't be too strict for yourself and don't stop from looking. Employer and employee need to match at certain points so they could engage in business. You'll get there.
     
    Campbell Ritchie
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    Jan de Boer wrote:. . . I can be a farmer now! . . .
    What does ”de Boer” mean? Doesn't it mean you are a farmer already
     
    Jan de Boer
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    Campbell Ritchie wrote:What does ”de Boer” mean?


    Hahahaha!

    Yes, the name means I am a farmer.
     
    Jan de Boer
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    Wel I just mailed a recruiter with a job suggestion, that I did not have experience in 'something' and that she must say that I do not have experience in 'something' because otherwise I do not go! Still if you compare my situation to many others that would beg to gó to an interview while nòt having the qualification, my situation is not bad, of course! These others are not software engineers, but other people I know with less education and less wanted skills in general.
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    Jan,
    It's frustrating for the employer when that happens to. I once had a 1 minute interview with a guy. It was for an experienced Java programming contractor. We required knowledge of Java. My first question is writing Java code. The guy tells me that he is a manual tester and doesn't know any Java. He said the contractor knew we had testers and sent him anyway figuring we would send him to the testing group.

    1) It doesn't work like that.
    2) We didn't have an opening in the testing group.

    The guy chose to use the rest of the time for the interview to yell at his recruiter. We also insisted that the recruiters could no longer screen resumes at that point!
     
    Jan de Boer
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    The employer had my CV beforehand. I am not sure how the recruiter sent my information to the company. But my first question to the employer was: Have you read my CV? Do you know I do not have experience with that tool. He says, yes I know. Then two days later I got a message from the recruiter, they do not want you because you have not got experience with that tool. In the interview they asked me about my hobby's and what I studied in my free time.. Maybe the thought I played with something similar at home or something.. I told them I like running. I studied to be an athletic coach, and I am really making progress speaking Korean at the moment. My situation was not that extreme as 'not knowing Java'. It s more like programming Java, but not with that kind of applications and tools.

     
    Jan de Boer
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    (And yes if I want to increase my chances I should probably learn some new tools and stuff. But you guys at the ranch probably know me by now.. I am doing other things.)
     
    It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
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