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Do I need a Java subcription?

 
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I write Java web services and other software for clients. This software is usually on AWS or on a client's own internal network.

Reading this article: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/

I'm now, after reading this article, still confused if I need to get a subscription and this drip-drip-drip subscription model is troubling.

Apparently, others are confused also about these changes as well.

Thanks for any clarification.

- mike
 
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OprnJDK will continue to be free. Oracle's Java may not be.
 
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Tim Moores wrote:OprnJDK will continue to be free. Oracle's Java may not be.



Not really a definitive answer. Is all this still up in the air?

I'm wondering if OpenJDK will have the same version 10.0.2 as the Oracle version does.

So many questions.

This charge-for-Java situation is sad. Greed on full display, IMHO.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens....

Thanks,

- mike
 
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Mike,
Oracle has always charged for paid support.

From an announcement blog post

Oracle wrote:The Java SE Subscription offering adds to all of that by offering a commercial license for Java SE combined with technical support and access to updates on legacy versions so you can upgrade to later releases on your own schedule.  It also buys time for organizations that may want another year or two to transition any use of Oracle Java SE desktop deployment technologies to other solutions.  No need to buy an expensive perpetual license, just buy desktop user subscriptions on an as-needed basis.



They also has a "buy a 1-2 year" license option (not just the perpetual license model) that many enterprise customers use.  You do not have to buy a license to use Java now, just like you didn't in the past.

Independent of this was the new Java release model. I gave a presentation on the topic: video and slides or slides only. The highlights that pertain to your questions
  • Open JDK releases every 6 months (java 9, 10, 11, 12, etc)
  • Oracle JDK releases every 3 years (Java 11, 17, etc)
  • Open JDK will only issue patches for a version until the next version comes out (so Java 10 patches stop when Java 11 is out)
  • Oracle JDK will offer patches for that version of Java for much longer (this is why it is paid)


  • What is unclear on is whether you can download the Oracle 11 JDK for the six months for free. This isn't a big deal as Open JDK 11 will definitely be free.

    In answer to your question, if you and your customers didn't pay for support before, there's no need to start doing so with the new model.
     
    Mike London
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    Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Mike,
    Oracle has always charged for paid support.

    From an announcement blog post

    Oracle wrote:The Java SE Subscription offering adds to all of that by offering a commercial license for Java SE combined with technical support and access to updates on legacy versions so you can upgrade to later releases on your own schedule.  It also buys time for organizations that may want another year or two to transition any use of Oracle Java SE desktop deployment technologies to other solutions.  No need to buy an expensive perpetual license, just buy desktop user subscriptions on an as-needed basis.



    They also has a "buy a 1-2 year" license option (not just the perpetual license model) that many enterprise customers use.  You do not have to buy a license to use Java now, just like you didn't in the past.

    Independent of this was the new Java release model. I gave a presentation on the topic: video and slides or slides only. The highlights that pertain to your questions
  • Open JDK releases every 6 months (java 9, 10, 11, 12, etc)
  • Oracle JDK releases every 3 years (Java 11, 17, etc)
  • Open JDK will only issue patches for a version until the next version comes out (so Java 10 patches stop when Java 11 is out)
  • Oracle JDK will offer patches for that version of Java for much longer (this is why it is paid)


  • What is unclear on is whether you can download the Oracle 11 JDK for the six months for free. This isn't a big deal as Open JDK 11 will definitely be free.

    In answer to your question, if you and your customers didn't pay for support before, there's no need to start doing so with the new model.



    But it's always been true you never even had to think about downloading Java SE for free, either.

    With the OpenJDK questions arise like:

    1. OK for commercial work?
    2. Feature identical to paid version?
    3. Works the same in IDEs as official Java SE?

    I suppose if I can keep just downloading (Oracle's) Java SE as I've always done, and use it for my clients, commercially, for free (never needed support), then I'm good!

    It sort of sounds like things are up in the air at the moment, however.

    Appreciate your reply...I guess we just have to wait and see what Larry has up his sleeve...

    Thanks,

    - mike
     
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    Well, things kinda ARE up in the air. If you want certainty now, then you should move to another vendor.

    I wouldn't be worried about OpenJDK. It's not in their interest to write software that works differently than expected, and I also don't think there's a bigger chance of the people at OpenJDK introducing a bug in their software than the people at Oracle.
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    Mike London wrote:But it's always been true you never even had to think about downloading Java SE for free, either.


    You still don't have to worry about it. Just now we use a different URL for download.

    Mike London wrote:1. OK for commercial work?


    If you were ok with using unpaid Oracle JDK, it's fine to use Open JDK. So it is ok for some types of commercial work. I work for a bank. We've always paid for support. Not because Oracle mandated it. But because we needed security patches and support.

    Mike London wrote:2. Feature identical to paid version?


    It's supposed to be. In fact, Oracle is one of the major contributors to Open JDK.

    Mike London wrote:3. Works the same in IDEs as official Java SE?


    Yes

     
    Tim Moores
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    Mike London wrote:

    Tim Moores wrote:OprnJDK will continue to be free. Oracle's Java may not be.



    Not really a definitive answer. Is all this still up in the air?


    The Oracle announcement from a few month back made it clear that nothing changes with respect to OpenJDK - I wouldn call that "up in the air".
     
    Mike London
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    Tim Moores wrote:

    Mike London wrote:

    Tim Moores wrote:OprnJDK will continue to be free. Oracle's Java may not be.



    Not really a definitive answer. Is all this still up in the air?


    The Oracle announcement from a few month back made it clear that nothing changes with respect to OpenJDK - I wouldn call that "up in the air".



    I was referring to the Java SE, which may not be freely downloadable starting in version 11. Nobody seems to be sure about that. Hence ... "up in the air".

    The bigger question is who can keep up with all the changes to Java? I'm still learning Lambdas and Java 8 stuff better and better. They keep adding, updating, etc.

    Sigh.

    I'm sure there are some folks out there who are clamoring for all these new features, but devs I work with hardly use them.

    Thanks,

    - mike
     
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    Mike London wrote:I'm sure there are some folks out there who are clamoring for all these new features, but devs I work with hardly use them.


    If you hardly use them then what does it matter? No point stressing out about things you can't control. I just try to have a general idea of what's new and what they're for and I can't even keep up with all of it. That doesn't keep me from doing my job though.
     
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    Junilu Lacar wrote:

    Mike London wrote:I'm sure there are some folks out there who are clamoring for all these new features, but devs I work with hardly use them.


    If you hardly use them then what does it matter? No point stressing out about things you can't control. I just try to have a general idea of what's new and what they're for and I can't even keep up with all of it. That doesn't keep me from doing my job though.



    Yeah, I know. It's just with the constant onslaught of new features, especially now every six months, I can't help that feeling that I'm falling behind (further) and missing something important...

    Appreciate your reply.

    Thanks,

    -- mike
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
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    Mike London wrote:

    Tim Moores wrote:

    Mike London wrote:

    Tim Moores wrote:OprnJDK will continue to be free. Oracle's Java may not be.



    Not really a definitive answer. Is all this still up in the air?


    The Oracle announcement from a few month back made it clear that nothing changes with respect to OpenJDK - I wouldn call that "up in the air".



    I was referring to the Java SE, which may not be freely downloadable starting in version 11. Nobody seems to be sure about that. Hence ... "up in the air".


    Open JDK 11 will be freely downloadable.
     
    Mike London
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    Right, but I've always used Java SE which "has" always been freely downloadable up to this point. That's what appears to be changing in Java 11 as I understand it.

    Sounds like OpenJDK will be feature-compatible with JavaSE 11 and work fine with Intellij, so I suppose there's no real issue (until Oracle kills OpenJDK, of course).

    Thanks,

    - mike
     
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    Mike London wrote:. . . until Oracle kills OpenJDK . . .

    . . .  and C# goes five places above Java® in Tiobe?
     
    Tim Moores
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    Mike London wrote:
    The bigger question is who can keep up with all the changes to Java? I'm still learning Lambdas and Java 8 stuff better and better. They keep adding, updating, etc.


    Same here. I'll stick with LTS releases - no way I'll update production infrastructure every 6 month. And since Java 9, 10 and 11 don't look like they add much bang for the buck, that likely means Java 8 for quite some time.
     
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    Java 9 is big. But I'm waiting for 11 as well.

    Note that Java SE 11 is a spec. Open JDK implements said spec. It's not a "lesser" implementation.

    This isn't that different from how some open source products operate. You can use the free version from the internet or the paid version from the vendor. The difference is that Oracle didn't market that clearly.
     
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    From http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/index.html, I think the most important parts are these:

    2. LICENSE TO USE. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement including, but not limited to, the Java Technology Restrictions of the Supplemental License Terms, Oracle grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license without license fees to reproduce and use internally the Software complete and unmodified for the sole purpose of running Programs. THE LICENSE SET FORTH IN THIS SECTION 2 DOES NOT EXTEND TO THE COMMERCIAL FEATURES. YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS RELATED TO THE COMMERCIAL FEATURES ARE AS SET FORTH IN THE SUPPLEMENTAL TERMS ALONG WITH ADDITIONAL LICENSES FOR DEVELOPERS AND PUBLISHERS.


    A. COMMERCIAL FEATURES. You may not use the Commercial Features for running Programs, Java applets or applications in your internal business operations or for any commercial or production purpose, or for any purpose other than as set forth in Sections B, C, D and E of these Supplemental Terms. If You want to use the Commercial Features for any purpose other than as permitted in this Agreement, You must obtain a separate license from Oracle.


    H. COMMERCIAL FEATURES NOTICE. For purpose of complying with Supplemental Term Section C.(v)(b) and D.(v)(b), your license agreement shall include the following notice, where the notice is displayed in a manner that anyone using the Software will see the notice:

    Use of the Commercial Features for any commercial or production purpose requires a separate license from Oracle. “Commercial Features” means those features that are identified as such in the Licensing Information User Manual – Oracle Java SE and Oracle Java Embedded Products Document, accessible at http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/index.html, under the “Description of Product Editions and Permitted Features” section.


    In other words, as long as you don't use any of the commercial features, you can use even Oracle's JDK and JRE for free. You can find these features at http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/products/index.html.
     
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