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"Memo From the Boss: You’re a Vegetarian Now"

 
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I read an article that WeWork announced that they will be making a change about meat

NYTimes wrote:The company will no longer serve red meat, pork or poultry at company functions, and it will not reimburse employees who want to order a hamburger during a lunch meeting.



I wonder how many meetings they have that require you working through lunch. And you could bring your own hamburger or turkey sandwich of whatever. At the same time, an employer telling you how to eat feels weird.

Overall, the headline seems overblown. Thoughts?
 
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Seems perfectly fine.  If they are feeding you then that's already pretty good.  Nothing wrong with vegetarian food.
 
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I wonder if this might create an uncomfortable atmosphere for meat eaters. For example, might they rightfully worry that they are not as welcome at the company, or may no longer get promotions?
 
Tim Moores
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Obligatory Mitchell & Webb meat eater sketch
 
Al Hobbs
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Tim Moores wrote: rightfully worry that they are not as welcome at the company, or may no longer get promotions?


Yeah does seem probable.  The real reason could be that  it's an excuse to save money. I figure salads are probably cheaper than meat.
 
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I would have a problem with halal meat being served as the only meat available. If that would happen, I would look for another job. I am not going to adapt my diet to some elses religion.
 
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Al Hobbs wrote: I figure salads are probably cheaper than meat.



Almost always. But as a confirmed salad freak, I would not expect to obtain enough energy for a full 8-hour workday from a salad - at least unless it was fortified with cheese and/or eggs. Which, considering that "vegetarian" mostly means "vegan" anymore is unlikely.

Eating vegetarian is not a problem for me as such. Just that I'm very particular about which vegetables. I'm a supertaster, so broccoli, brussels sprouts and other cooked cruciforms are out (I love cole slaw, but the mere smell of cooked cabbage can clear me out of the room as fast as fish). Don't like cauliflower either. Forget about the "cauliflower rice" fad.  Don't even care for tomatoes unless they've been rendered down.

May just as well wait till I get home to eat. I can be vegetarian there easily, since there's tons of stuff that don't contain repellent ingredients I can whip up. It's just that when I go out, they're not likely to be on the menu.

As far as the company controlling what you eat, it's just a further step down the path that started with controlling smoking, only ethical (we presume) not for health of the employee and co-workers. In 21st Century America, it's a given that the company owns your body during working hours with a strong lien on your soul. And, in many cases, they expect that to continue after hours.
 
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Tim Moores wrote:I wonder if this might create an uncomfortable atmosphere for meat eaters. For example, might they rightfully worry that they are not as welcome at the company, or may no longer get promotions?


Did the same happen with smokers?
 
Jan de Boer
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Reminds me of an occasion when I dated a vegan girl. It was in Korea, and Korean normally eat a lot of meat, I think. So we were paired together at her friends wedding, there was a running buffet. And I, unknowingly she was a veggie girl, happily loaded my plate with piles of meat. Euh, yeah well, she gave me a sort of unwelcome glare then. Since then, for practical reasons, when I am eating out, I am veggie.
 
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Works both ways!
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[Thumbnail for EMUvONukLKBEGQxTeS7dB5sl3cFuLBLkNSAgIGoJWSg.jpg]
 
Tim Moores
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Jan de Boer wrote:for practical reasons, when I am eating out, I am veggie.


So basically, eating out means you're on a date?
 
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WeWork is no longer a safe space for carnivores.

It's exaggerated title...
 
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I suppose if you were an obligate carnivore then you might have grounds for complaint. There might be people who must eat meat, perhaps for medical or religious reasons, and that could be described as a condition which the employer might have to deal with. But otherwise the scenario seems like the one in which the employer sends out for a pile of pizzas and you complain because you wanted Chinese food.
 
Jan de Boer
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Tim Moores wrote:

Jan de Boer wrote:for practical reasons, when I am eating out, I am veggie.


So basically, eating out means you're on a date?



Hey I am Dutch! I am cheap!

I don't go eating out for non relational purposes no..
 
Jan de Boer
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Paul Clapham wrote:... a pile of pizzas and you complain because you wanted Chinese food.



Well I have repeated complained that our company (and dozens of others I worked for by the way) orders piles of unhealthy food at certain occasions, then advocates the employees to do sports and having a healthy lifestyle for HSE reasons. I think that is a paradox. And yeah, I am a heath freak. So I'd rather have a healthy vegatarian dish then.
 
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Jan de Boer wrote:I would have a problem with halal meat being served as the only meat available. If that would happen, I would look for another job. I am not going to adapt my diet to some elses religion.


How do you physically distinct whether meat is halal or not?
 
Jan de Boer
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:

Jan de Boer wrote:I would have a problem with halal meat being served as the only meat available. If that would happen, I would look for another job. I am not going to adapt my diet to some elses religion.


How do you physically distinct whether meat is halal or not?



If the meat is halal it is usually advertised by the management to please the muslims. If the management would say, from now on, to make things easier, we only have halal meat, I look for a new job. I am not going to be that Dhimmi.
 
Liutauras Vilda
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Earlier, I wrote:How do you physically distinct whether meat is halal or not?


Jan de Boer wrote:If the meat is halal it is usually advertised by the management to please the muslims.


So no difference in taste or anything else, just the matter of advertising as such that bothers you?

Will ask differently.

If there would be 2 bowls with meat in them, one halal, other not - would you distinct which one is which?
 
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So, I could in theory bring my own meat product if I wanted to right?
Many people, in North America at least, consume too much meat and too little plant based food.

Depending on the size of the company and/or the company in general this may not matter at all.
For nearly 15 years I worked for a small company and only occasionally and infrequently did the company ever pay for meals.
If you take this to concept to a non IT job then I suspect many people would not care.

Not that I'm trying to convert anyone, but many athletes, even at the top Olympic levels follow plant based diets.
Some studies also suggest that those who eat meat are more likely to become ill then those who do not.

Would you be able to not consume any meat or dairy products for seven consecutive days?
I made May 2018 "Meatless May", but I still had dairy and I only missed meat a few times.
If you live near a larger metropolitan area then there are meatless alternatives (many which are healthy).
 
Tim Moores
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:How do you physically distinct whether meat is halal or not?


Not directly related to this, but where available (like in American baseball stadiums) I would prefer kosher hot dogs to non-kosher hot dogs - not for religious reason, just for the better taste. But I wouldn't be able to distinguish visually between the two of them when put in front of me (except by tasting both).
 
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:

Jan de Boer wrote:I would have a problem with halal meat being served as the only meat available. If that would happen, I would look for another job. I am not going to adapt my diet to some elses religion.


How do you physically distinct whether meat is halal or not?


.. or kosher, or maybe had been blessed by prayer
 
Paul Clapham
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Jan de Boer wrote:Hey I am Dutch! I am cheap!  



And here I thought that the English expression "Dutch treat" (where everybody pays for their own food) was ethnic prejudice against the Dutch. I guess it's not.
 
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Yes, the Dutch are cheapskates avant la lettre.

Take me for instance. For well over 40 years I have been taken my own sandwiches from home, either with or without meat. And taking a walk when the collegues were having lunch in the cantina.
 
Liutauras Vilda
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Tim Moores wrote:Not directly related to this, but where available (like in American baseball stadiums) I would prefer kosher hot dogs to non-kosher hot dogs - not for religious reason, just for the better taste. But I wouldn't be able to distinguish visually between the two of them when put in front of me (except by tasting both).


Does halal meat differs in taste versus non halal in the same way as these hot dogs? I thought halal meat is just the way the animal is killed. Which I'd be surprised if that would affect meat's taste somehow. I might wrong.
 
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:So no difference in taste or anything else, just the matter of advertising as such that bothers you?



Taste is irrelevant, it is a matter of principle. I won't cooperate to animal cruelty because muslims want some privileges. I would ever rather nót eat. Lately I have even been in such a situation. All shops except the halal meat shop were closed. I did 'ramadan'.

You can find some scary movies about ritual slaugtering searching on internet of course.
 
Jan de Boer
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:I thought halal meat is just the way the animal is killed.



In a very cruel and primitive way, from instructions from the dark ages!
 
Ganesh Patekar
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:I thought halal meat is just the way the animal is killed.

Halal means a way to kill an animal and while killing one must utter Islamic prayer otherwise prohibited like pork.
 
Liutauras Vilda
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Ganesh Patekar wrote:

Liutauras Vilda wrote:I thought halal meat is just the way the animal is killed.

Halal means a way to kill an animal and while killing one must utter Islamic prayer otherwise prohibited like pork.


So all is relied just on ad which claims that meat is halal (possibly) as no difference in actual meat taste so person could distinguish. In which case makes no difference to me what meat to eat. Jan feels differently about that.
 
Ganesh Patekar
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:So all is relied just on ad which claims that meat is halal (possibly)

Yes possibly, so here comes the matter of trust...

as no difference in actual meat taste so person could distinguish.

I've never had non veg since I'm ( My whole family except father ) vegetarian from child hood but I do understand though food taste doesn't differ but feelings while having It may change ( for Muslims).

Same way the feeling I get when I eat a banana and a banana which is "Prasad" ( banana offered to god by praying ) differs a lot. When I eat a banana as "Prasad" It becomes so pure ( In our thoughts ) and important we don't waste It. It doesn't remain just a banana but a source of energy. Such thing goes almost same with all religions.

In which case makes no difference to me what meat to eat. Jan feels differently about that.

Even for me It makes no difference but It has to be veg. It's just different ways of thinking. It's good we think differently so the innovations are being introduced.

Halal killing way has some scientific reason behind It, that's what Dr. Zakir Naik claims, had seen his videos in 2007-08. Anyways seems we're going off the topic  
 
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Ganesh Patekar wrote:. . . . Anyways seems we're going off the topic  

There ain't no such thing as off‑topic here in MD.
 
Ganesh Patekar
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:

Ganesh Patekar wrote:. . . . Anyways seems we're going off the topic  

There ain't no such thing as off‑topic here in MD.

Ah! Good to know that..
 
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Tough luck for employees on Atkins!
 
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Stephan van Hulst wrote:

Tim Moores wrote:I wonder if this might create an uncomfortable atmosphere for meat eaters. For example, might they rightfully worry that they are not as welcome at the company, or may no longer get promotions?


Did the same happen with smokers?


At one company I worked for it was a firing offense.
 
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Liutauras Vilda wrote:So all is relied just on ad which claims that meat is halal (possibly) as no difference in actual meat taste so person could distinguish. In which case makes no difference to me what meat to eat. Jan feels differently about that.


I tend to disagree with Jan's views on Islam, but in this case I agree with him. It's a matter of principle. Even if the meat itself is otherwise exactly the same, the only way to stop certain practices is by boycotting the product.

If you're in a clothing store and you're standing in front of a rack with shirts that were made in a shop that paid fair wages to employees that have good living conditions, and a rack of shirts that were made in some Bangladeshi sweatshop, and the shirts were otherwise exactly the same, which would you buy?
 
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Stephan van Hulst wrote:If you're in a clothing store and you're standing in front of a rack with shirts that were made in a shop that paid fair wages to employees that have good living conditions, and a rack of shirts that were made in some Bangladeshi sweatshop, and the shirts were otherwise exactly the same, which would you buy?


The former, in order to support it, but the overall impact is not clearcut. Although the worker with the fair wage may be better off, the worker in the sweatshop may be worse off - and he might need the wage more, even though it's not a fair wage.
 
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Yes, it's true, you might harm the poor worker because the shop has to shut down, but thereby you might also improve conditions for future workers in the region. It's a complex matter though. This discussion also reminds me of how heated the argument about tipping waiters in North America can become. In the short term, tipping is important for waiters to earn a living wage, but it causes some companies to shirk on paying out a living wage in the first place.

I believe I stumbled upon a study once that demonstrated that poor countries that didn't receive aid from rich countries were quicker to improve their economies in the long term than countries that depended on aid.
 
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Bear Bibeault wrote:

Stephan van Hulst wrote:

Tim Moores wrote:I wonder if this might create an uncomfortable atmosphere for meat eaters. For example, might they rightfully worry that they are not as welcome at the company, or may no longer get promotions?

Did the same happen with smokers?

At one company I worked for it was a firing offense.



A firing offense for smoking or eating meat? Either one smells of discrimination.

At the risk of getting into "political correctness" territory, in my opinion so many things nowadays have become overly sensitized. "Back in the day" when you went to a company lunch, dinner, or whatever, either everybody brought something to share with everyone else if it was potluck (salad, some kind of meat or pasta dish, soup, dessert, etc...), or the company, if they were organizing and covering the cost, would provide different kinds of food (although there were considerations given to those with special diet requirements, like those with allergies or other medical reasons, and so on). There was none of this "if you eat this kind of food then you, or what you bring, is not welcome" kind of attitude, as this appears to be. It was so much simpler. I personally think, in most cases, people just enjoy each other's company at these functions - no one is out to single out any single person or group.
 
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Pete Letkeman wrote:So, I could in theory bring my own meat product if I wanted to right?


Yes


Pete Letkeman wrote:Would you be able to not consume any meat or dairy products for seven consecutive days?


Meat - if I planned really well, yes.
Dairy - definitely not.
 
Jan de Boer
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:

Ganesh Patekar wrote:. . . . Anyways seems we're going off the topic  

There ain't no such thing as off‑topic here in MD.



Not completely true. If it gets too political the discussion could be moved to rattlesnake pit.
 
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