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Don't you get Annoyed by...  RSS feed

 
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The fact that whenever you search for something, like for example a bootstrap template, the top results always call them self free, but hardly ever are?
Google (or other search-engines for that mather) should really do something about all those website that use the tag free in their metadata just to generate more traffic.
It's really f***ing annoying...
 
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"Free" in the world of business is a relative term, isn't it? How many businesses advertise "free TV when you purchase 4 or more appliances". It is really a free TV? You just spent $000s of dollars giving them business - it wasn't a free transaction (although obviously the understanding was that you wouldn't just walk into a business and get a TV for free). One way or another costs are transferred to the consumer.

But to your point Daniel about it being annoying, though, I agree it is aggravating how many push the whole "free" thing when doing searches. It's funny, years ago when the online world was starting to pepper their sites with "free" stuff, I found it very frustrating. But years later, either I have softened and just accepted the reality that we are an "ad-happy" society, or, I am so used to those popups and "friendly reminders" that show up in my email, etc..., I am finding I am more tolerant when a vendor reminds me that I can "upgrade to the premium version for $XX.XX...". For instance, I use AVG on my home system and am frequently asked if I want to upgrade to Premium (I have the free version). I personally don't find it too intrusive getting those popups and just close them and continue on my merry way.

Maybe because I feel that businesses have to be profitable and find more and more creative ways to attract customers, that I am more tolerant of the promises of free merchandise (or coupon, etc...) in order to try and entice people to pay for their merchandise or services.

Those businesses are competing to get your attention, and let's face it, most (some?) of us figure getting something free on a deal, even if we had to spend some money, is great.

 
Daniel Demesmaecker
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Randy Maddocks wrote:"Free" in the world of business is a relative term, isn't it? How many businesses advertise "free TV when you purchase 4 or more appliances". It is really a free TV? You just spent $000s of dollars giving them business - it wasn't a free transaction (although obviously the understanding was that you wouldn't just walk into a business and get a TV for free). One way or another costs are transferred to the consumer.


That isn't free, that's tying. And there's a difference between offering a basic package for free and let the consumer pay for additional features and calling it free when the only thing free is creating an account
 
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Actually when I search for something using Google, it's quite common for the top several results to be identified as "Ad". I haven't encountered the situation you described before.
 
Daniel Demesmaecker
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That used to be the case for me too, but now a days may be one or two results are advertised, I just skip them cause I don't expect them to be really free (not that I expect the rest to be), google also don't seperate them anymore like they used to, but I dare you to find a result that's actually free on the first page .
When it comes to advertising on google, I would never do that, I think a lot of people just skip those result just because they're advertised
 
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Like Paul, I have encountered ads, but not the situation you describe. Can you give an example search term that shows what you mean (and maybe a screenshot of the resulting page)?
 
Sheriff
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This is one of my favourites found near ATMs

FREE
CASH
WITHDRAWALS
 
Marshal
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I did once get free cash from an ATM. It wasn't really mine, but this chap had just made a large withdrawal and the cash was caught by a gust of wind. The owner picked up about half of it, and I caught the other half, and the look on his face when I said, “Thank you,” was worth a thousand times more than the money. I gave the money back to him about 15″ later.
 
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For my searches i use DuckDuckgo I can say is almost Ad free respect google;
I too encountered a google's behaviour as Paul says; maybe you Daniel are you referred to word free as context related instead of appearance? but in that case actually we are blind regard AI and IMHO for some eons to come

@Tim Cooke: really?! where're you mate i come to find you i love that ATM's
 
Campbell Ritchie
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Nearly got free beer a few months ago. This chap was, I thought, hassling the landlord, but I was mistaken; he was only trying to haggle a better price for a cocktail. I went up to the bar, at which point the haggler notices me and asks, “What are you having?” The look of horror on his face when I said, “That's very kind of you, thank you”!
 
Randy Maddocks
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Daniel Demesmaecker wrote:That isn't free, that's tying



Hmm, never heard the term "tying" in this sense. My example was in the context of businesses over-using or abusing the concept of "free".
 
Campbell Ritchie
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Randy Maddocks wrote:. . . never heard the term "tying" in this sense. . . . .

But maybe, “vendor lock‑in?”
 
Randy Maddocks
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:But maybe, “vendor lock‑in?”



Sounds like something the ISP carriers in this country (Canada) do with their 2- or 3-year contracts that you lock into, and it costs $$$ (and generally headaches) to get out of it if you want to before the contract term expires...

Some of this brings back memories of terms we first learned about in school, like "bait and switch", or other ploys to "fool" customers
 
Randy Maddocks
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For those curious/interested: investopedia definition of tying
 
Randy Maddocks
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Thank you to whomever gave me a cow on my initial post here!  
 
Marshal
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:I gave the money back to him about 15″ later.


You weren't in a rush at all. Just counted up to (and including 15) and it felt like a fairly long time to keep somebody else's money But that's ok you found them, otherwise somebody would have kept them for slightly longer, ∞.
 
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Harry Kar wrote:For my searches i use DuckDuckgo I can say is almost Ad free respect google;



Here's a cool experiment I suggest you can try.
  • Setup duckduckgo as your default search engine in chrome
  • Search for any text
  • Now open myactivity.google.com


  • I searched for "I hate cabbage". See attached screenshot
    duckduckgoSearch.jpg
    [Thumbnail for duckduckgoSearch.jpg]
     
    Campbell Ritchie
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    salvin francis wrote:. . .

  • Setup duckduckgo as your default search engine in chrome
  • . . .

    I have enough trouble trying to persuade some of my family to go anywhere near a cabbage in the first place, but putting it on Chrome …
    What do you expect?
     
    Harry Kar
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    salvin francis wrote:

    Harry Kar wrote:For my searches i use DuckDuckgo I can say is almost Ad free respect google;



    Here's a cool experiment I suggest you can try.
  • Setup duckduckgo as your default search engine in chrome
  • Search for any text
  • Now open myactivity.google.com


  • I searched for "I hate cabbage". See attached screenshot



    I just did it look at pic today i have visited lots of sites but in activities are only someone(searched trough google's engine     DuckDuckgo engine's  results not compare in list   ) as you can see; privacy stuff is something serious i can firm that sentence; hope "normal users" take acknowledge on that issue as soon as possible
    I quote Campbell about Google and Chrome

    Update: That pic is from my house workstation when i want more anon i go with tor by the way at work's workstation tor is mandatory
    Screenshot-1.png
    [Thumbnail for Screenshot-1.png]
     
    salvin francis
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    Harry Kar wrote:... I just did it look at pic today i have visited lots of sites but in activities are only someone(searched trough google's engine ...


    Maybe it's chrome that's the culprit. But my point is that even though DuckDuckGo is doing it's part to keep your search private... Someone else   still knows what you searched in Chrome. That someone is tracking your activity and the details it stores are scary (Just browse through the "myactivity" entries and you would be amazed at what is stored about you)

    Harry Kar wrote: privacy stuff is something serious...


    it is, but it's very difficult to get online-privacy now a days. You can lookup articles about it such as "There is No Such Thing as True Privacy in the Digital Age"

    Here's some scary stuff:
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/4/18124718/google-search-results-personalized-unique-duckduckgo-filter-bubble

    theverge wrote:it does not seem possible to avoid personalization when using Google search, even by logging out of your Google account and using the private browsing “incognito” mode.


     
    Harry Kar
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    salvin francis wrote:

    Harry Kar wrote:... I just did it look at pic today i have visited lots of sites but in activities are only someone(searched trough google's engine ...


    Maybe it's chrome that's the culprit.



    Here're some public Chrome's privacy issues but I'm sure there are also other ones that are actually hidden till some sec researcher discover them (in that purpose Google use a similar strategy as MS)

    But my point is that even though DuckDuckGo is doing it's part to keep your search private... Someone else   still knows what you searched in Chrome. That someone is tracking your activity and the details it stores are scary



    That "Someone" is called Google  

    (Just browse through the "myactivity" entries and you would be amazed at what is stored about you)



    I did it and as you can see there aren't any of the DDG's results
    In myactivity today's list (in pic) those are the links the list face but i can assure you when i returned in house i clicked on almost 50 links at minimum on DDG but they not compare in list(it's not a casualty DDG became the main search machine for tor and other browsers that are sensible on their user's privacy)
    https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.goodreads.com/search%3Fq%3Dlatex&usg=AFQjCNF6PpihWxo04afB0DnKEwS9LFhO0g
    https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/106613.Best_TDD_Books&usg=AFQjCNEoboR3FgKxcIZLM3rB73seEjRDJA
    https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/8379.Software_Craftsmanship&usg=AFQjCNHf0CaC-dUWBXk2D-PwqZ_vRU1zSw
    https://www.google.com/url?q=https://slashdot.org/&usg=AFQjCNFWhpbKgm1vOwTn1wBy8fB_zZ1KXw
    https://www.google.com/url?q=http://freecomputerbooks.com/sitemap.html&usg=AFQjCNEyRcdRKJzVNMvo0We0rP3MvefWLg


    Harry Kar wrote: privacy stuff is something serious...


    it is, but it's very difficult to get online-privacy now a days. You can lookup articles about it such as "There is No Such Thing as True Privacy in the Digital Age"



    First Internet wasn't  designed with security and privacy in mind although the last years try to take cover with sec related RFC's  
    and Over all yes i agree (even without reading sec-related informative/divulge articles) absolute things(as e.g. True Privacy) was not possible in analog world and even more so aren't in the digital one  but that's not mean you have to give up
    I'm on the field for a life and working in subject more than ten years now  and I can tell you if you're not a "special individual" actually you can go cool with DDG as your "search thing" and tor as your anon "browsing thing" until proven otherwise  

    Here's some scary stuff:
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/4/18124718/google-search-results-personalized-unique-duckduckgo-filter-bubble

    theverge wrote:it does not seem possible to avoid personalization when using Google search, even by logging out of your Google account and using the private browsing “incognito” mode.



    Yes and you mention only the tip of the iceberg . Anyway Google is a heavy player in Web and use every trick(reminds me MS in that aspect) to track you  
     
    salvin francis
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    Your browser/Google isn't the only one. There are other entities like your company network, your ISP, etc.. Even ad websites can track you based on your digital fingerprint.
     
    Harry Kar
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    salvin francis wrote:Your browser/Google isn't the only one. There are other entities like your company network, your ISP, etc.. Even ad websites can track you based on your digital fingerprint.



    Everything in Security (as in financial) world is basing in trust. Between a sender and a receiver all the stakeholders are potential info-leakers but the biggest of all them is Google not your ISP(i some manner you have to trust him until proven otherwise) nor Doubleclick or Alexa hope now be a bit clearer

    I have nothing against Google I refer to him only because is a(or better THE) base Web service(mean without search one normal user can do almost nothing on the web) although the data he collects uses it for himself mainly what is important from a security perspective is that he's an enormous basin of user's data practically a monopoly and on the other hand we don't forget that is also one of the biggest contributors in opensource and web technologies so he do good things too. There are also the social sites FB, all Q&A sites etc

    PS:
    1. Verges article i had read it somewhere else some time ago
    2. G. Maone's NoScript  plugin is very useful to control what scripts are running on a page warmly recommended(it's a bit annoying at start but after a little of practice becomes second nature)
    3. Regard tor take a (starting) look at https://tor.stackexchange.com/ or better from his papers
    4. If you continue to be interesting on anon nets then take a look at citeseerx
     
    Rancher
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    I started watching The Creepy Line which was describing how many of these web companies offer "free" services but use the information they collect for their own benefit.  Never finished watching it as it seem to be heading too much towards the paranoia that the "tin foil hat" folks are always talking about.  Maybe I should re-watch it.  

    Anyway JavaRanch is "free" - and I'm pretty sure that they are not collecting data    
     
    Harry Kar
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    Peter Rooke wrote:...  Never finished watching it as it seem to be heading too much towards the paranoia that the "tin foil hat" folks are always talking about.  Maybe I should re-watch it.  


    Maybe not all but some of the "paranoid folks" that  always have talked about have all they good reasons to do it. The problem is that the issue is a complex one and very few if any  normal persons are willing to deal with; on the other hand only lately in unis exist courses on that specialty and yes you as anyone of us should  re-watch it
     
    Harry Kar
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    On purpose of Cyber Sec who's interested can start from https://www.nsa.gov/
     
    Peter Rooke
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    Yeah, "they good reasons to do it" - I'm more paranoid than most having been involved in a few government projects - one in which we were taking information from various sources and building up an MDM (master data management) solution to link all the information together.

    However, to answer the original question "Don't you get Annoyed by..." - maybe I used to, but as I've got older I've worked out that life is just too short to get annoyed by trivial things.  With the one exception of most employment agencies who seem to "represent" technical people and jobs without have any real knowledge of these technologies.
     
    Liutauras Vilda
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    Peter Rooke wrote:Anyway JavaRanch is "free" - and I'm pretty sure that they are not collecting data


    What do you mean..

    We know how big is your herd farm (9 at this very moment). Don't get astonished if you get some flyers with a discount for the hay supplemented with grain, soy and other ingredients. Apparently all for the better cattle feeding
     
    I want my playground back. Here, I'll give you this tiny ad for it:
    Programmatically Create PDF Using Free Spire.PDF with Java
    https://coderanch.com/wiki/703735/Programmatically-Create-PDF-Free-Spire
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