Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
Agreed. People over process. Again, however, I've found XP and Scrum being much more "people over process" than any alternative I've seen.
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford:
The problem with any process is that it is a one size fits all approach. What makes XP worse is that it is very rigid. One part fails, the project starts spiraling down.
Originally posted by Damon Black:
For people who like to think out loud and thrive on constant interaction with others, XP feels like "people over process". For me it was the opposite.
Whether XP is supposed to be so rigid or not, I've seen it applied in exactly that way. All of my attempts to modify the process to work for me were rejected outright.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford:
Certainly other factors not related to any specific process do contribute to a distracting environment, but the core of XP demands a distracting environment. This is why I think it is perfectly valid criticism of XP.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford:
Constant distractions, noisy environment, people looking over your shoulder. What a mess.
XP is NOT a natural way to do things.
YAGNI is just code for 'I just wasted my time on something because of a lack of proper up front design, but I am going to pretend it is something postive'.
If you are constantly communicating, you are distracted by the task at hand.
The problem with any process is that it is a one size fits all approach.
What makes XP worse is that it is very rigid. One part fails, the project starts spiraling down.
A shop that rigidly adheres to any process is not a shop worth working for. Whatever process you use must be tailored to fit the dynamic of the team and work to the strengths of the individual programmers. Otherwise you are just pounding a square block into a round hole.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
...I seriously doubt that it's only about "liking to think out loud".
After some more thinking, I might come up with the idea that it was *me* who failed to influence the process in a way that was both acceptable to me *and* my teammates.
"Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes" - Edsger Dijkstra
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford:
Agile principle are fantastic, but XP just takes things way to far.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford:
Constant distractions, noisy environment, people looking over your shoulder. What a mess.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Originally posted by Rusty Shackleford:
XP is NOT a natural way to do things. That fact you need a coach is proof of that.
YAGNI is just code for 'I just wasted my time on something because of a lack of proper up front design, but I am going to pretend it is something postive'.
Books: Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java, Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.