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Plane crashed into WTC?

 
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Originally posted by Monika Balogh:
Did you know the guys who kidnapped the planes only had knifes.


i am not picking on you, Monika, but:
i cannot believe people have not figured this out yet... the hijackers were very well trained! they have probably been working on this for a year or more.
what probably happened is that the 3 or 5 (these numbers are pretty sure) terrorists on the plane carried plastic knives through the metal detectors... not soft plastic, but composite plastic. very strong. not razor sharp, but that does not matter here.
then, they simultaneously killed 2 flight attendants. this was confirmed by a phone call from a flight attendant on flight 11, i think.
by killing the 2 flight attendants, they had all the passengers in fear. then, they broke into the cockpit (also confirmed by the phone call) and probably killed the pilot.
this was not a failure of the Intelligence System... it was a defeat by a methodical maniac.
 
Greg Harris
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the second thing i cannot believe is how people refuse to believe that these terrorists were pilots.
one report i saw from the FAA said that the guy flying the plane that hit the Pentagon had to be a pilot... and a skilled one.
after they killed the pilot (probably) they shut-off the IFF transpsonder (tells the flight number) and they shut-off the plane's radar system.
this is important for 2 reasons:
1. they had to know where they were going and they had to be skilled enough to bring the plane down to hit between the 1st and 2nd floors... 20 feet off the ground
2. by turning of the IFF and radar they prevented the EW (Electronic Warfare Specialist, what i used to do) from seeing them as an inbound target. the Pentagon has anti-aircraft weapons, but without a target they are useless. also, by dropping to such a low altitude they prevented the FAA's radars from tracking them.
so, these guys were probably former military pilots (not commercial) from a country such as Iraq. not that hard to believe, and most likely exactly what happened.
[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited September 12, 2001).]
 
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Originally posted by Randall Twede:
It could start a war but not a world war. Actually for our military against any middle east nation(or group) it would be more of a skirmish.


I think this is one of the common misconceptions.
Situation:
American walks into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden (Assuming he's guilty). Syria, Libya, Iran and Iraq (plus other splinter nations) get all riled up about the move against "innocents" especially if they go back to the cruise missle way of dealing with this problem. Maybe China is now appalled at America's 'irresponsible response' and get's pissed they issue warning to stop. America tells them to go to hell becuase hey are now on a crusade. The "Russian" nations see an openning and keep their eyes open for some way to increase thier power. (Plus they all have nukes from the old days). Germany gets' nervous as Russian has to walk throgh them to get to the middle east so they are on alert. India, Pakistan, and the Koreas will start getting nervous.. It's a vicious circle..
Where 'COULD' this all lead?? This 'could' lead to a World War over time, but let's see the more obvious outcome (IMHO).
Someone has already broken the ice on hitting America.. why not again? American MAY be the biggest and most impressive MILITARY power in the world.. but yesterdays acts proved you can still hit "Goliath" with the proverbial "Rock" from David.
The 'enemies" of America could think, "okay we can't touch their military so for every person they kill, let's kill an innocent.
Amercia does have the right to retaliate against the indiviodual hat caused this event, but, they better make it surgical or all hell can break lose.
The thing that REALLY scares me.. Is that I beleive Bush isn't moral, responsible or smart enough to make the right decision. I hope he listens to his advisors.
 
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Speaking of maniacs read the last paragraph link
 
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Nanhesru,
Please dont compare something like fried potatoes to what happened.
Dave - well said. 110% behind ya on that one.
Paul, that link doesnt work for me.
 
Paul Stevens
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Andy,
Here is the text.
It may be more than coincidental that on the day of the terrorist attacks, the official Palestinian Authority daily said, "The suicide bombers of today are the noble successors of their noble predecessors...the Lebanese suicide bombers, who taught the U.S. Marines a tough lesson in (Lebanon)...and then, with no preconditions, they threw the last of the remaining enemy (Israeli) soldiers out of the (security) zone. These suicide bombers are the salt of the earth, the engines of history...They are the most honorable people among us.''
Cal Thomas author.
 
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Try this link
The other link had an extra "http://" in it.
Paul R
 
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I just read in CNN the UN/NATO is considering invoking the Article 5. By doing so they will give the green light to US to retaliate.
I am still unable to talk to my friend whose wife works in WTC. No news!
[This message has been edited by Ajith Kallambella (edited September 12, 2001).]
 
Greenhorn
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September 11, 2001
9/11/2001
9 1 1
another symbol?
 
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Originally posted by Ajith Kallambella:
I just read in CNN the UN is considering invoking the Article 5. By doing so they will give the green light to US to retaliate.


At this point I dont think we care if the UN gives us the green light. While we should wait until we know for sure who is responsible, I also believe that when we do retaliate it must be a total and undeniable statement that we will not put up this kind of cowardly attack on innocent people - ever!!


I am still unable to talk to my friend whose wife works in WTC. No news!


I hope your friend and his wife are ok, I know the phone service there is pretty overloaded and quite a few people are in make shift shelters - I hope they are just out of touch.
Dave
 
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How come the terrorist took control of not one or two but
more than 4 planes almost simultaneously ???, What about airport metal detector controls, is there's a possibility of conspiracy like one executed by McVeigh, I mean with the help from someone INSIDE the US system?
How is possible that the more sophisticated security systems in the world, of the most advanced military country were deceived.
USA invest millions of dollars per year in it's own security and yesterday it didn't work as it should. WHY??

I still don't think USA should start a war, simply because you don't know who are you fighting against, that wasn't a declaration of war but terrorism in it's simplest and purest form, USA were paralysed and in total terror.
Is very different view it through CNN when the devastated country is very far away, may be in eastern europe or somewere else.

USA should concentrate all it's power in search and punish the responsible of these attacks but find them as individuals not as a whole nation or race, that would turn USA government in a racist, xenophobic country, that's not what we want.
Justice must be done....

Finally I have to say Im very sorry about what happened in NYC and Washington, my condolences.

[This message has been edited by Zkr Ryz (edited September 12, 2001).]
 
Greg Harris
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Zkr, read my post above... the terrorists were very skilled and did not bring "conventional" weapons on the planes. they had plastic knives and "box-cutters." until yesterday, knives under 4 inches in length were allowed on planes.
as for why they took 4 planes instead of 1... this was a declaration of war on the United States. period. they wanted to hit us and hit hard. they did.
do not compare this to Tim McVeigh! this was not carried out by US citizens as some sort of conspiracy.
the US intelligence community has been hindered for a long time... we have not been able to send spies into other countries to infiltrate terrorist organizations. that is going to change now.
our military and intelligence communities did not fail. in a large, open and free country such as ours it is impossible to watch every inch of ground 24 hours a day. things like this can happen, and it did.
i am afraid that we are not going to enjoy the same level of freedom for a very long time.
 
Desperado
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"the US intelligence community has been hindered for a long time..."
That was brought up today in a CNN interview. In fact the interviewee called it the PC-CIA and no, he didn't mean a new personal computer electrical interface but the POLITICALLY CORRECT CIA and that "PC" was hindering the intelligence efforts of the USA.
He suggested that now all that may change and the new CIA emerging from all this will have more resources and more permissions to assassinate potential enemies and so forth.
 
Tony Alicea
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"Hijacking five planes..."
It was four planes.
 
Greg Harris
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Tony: exactly what i was getting at. i know you have been around the intelligence community, so you know what i am talking about. i guess a lot of people do not realize just how important HUMINT (human intelligence) is to our (and every) country.
and another thing on intelligence. i could not believe the reporters yesterday and today... they were asking where Air Force-1 was going yesterday and they were asking about our intelligence sources today. that kind of information is called classified for a reason! the reporters and the public have absolutely NO NEED TO KNOW that type of information.
[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited September 12, 2001).]
 
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>And equating a reaction to this to beef in fries are you on crack?
To quench your curiosity, NO I'm not
>Please dont compare something like fried potatoes to what happened
I was merely comparing my reaction with Tony's; and obviously not the actual events themselves. However, if you want to draw an analogy, one common response to vegetarians was "your ignorance is not an excuse". Perhaps the same can be told to the US intelligence services now?
Also President Bush said over and over again "we will not be cowed down". I think that's unfair to cows.
Another of my deep observations: Bush's proposed multi-billion dollar anti-missile defense system, even if it were in place, could not have prevented yesterday's attack from happening. There are two ways of making America safer: Pour some more billions of taxpayer money into better intelligence gathering. America has plenty of enemies all around the world. Track all their communications and movements. Or, CUT the hubris, and make earnest attempts to be friendly with those nations they are currently at loggerheads with. Everybody wants to be friendly with America, so why not initiate a dialog and give peace a chance? I know it's not possible to please everyone, but surely some progress can be made?
Someday, I would like to see Bush, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden have dinner together at the White House, all chatting amicably.
 
Nanhesru Ningyake
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>Desai Sandeep
Wow, is that really you? I hardly recognized you without your long signature
 
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Someday, I would like to see Bush, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden have dinner together at the White House, all chatting amicably.
{/QUOTE]
unfortunately thats not going to happen.

 
Greenhorn
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It is in all correctness that the US fight back.
It is high time all the nations of the world who are
victims of this religious "holy"(as they call it) war
get together and eliminate the roots of these people.
We in India have witnessed very similar events and the process
is continous.We have seen our National Pride, the Red Fort in New Delhi being attacked.We have lost Prime Ministers and only-God-knows-how-many innocent citizens and security force poeple
in this senseless Islamic war.
It is time the US joins hands with countries like India and
carry out a very comprehensive operation to eliminate these terrorists completely.Let it be a well-planned and comprehensive operation, once and for all.
 
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
Everybody wants to be friendly with America, so why not initiate a dialog and give peace a chance? I know it's not possible to please everyone, but surely some progress can be made? Someday, I would like to see Bush, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden have dinner together at the White House, all chatting amicably.

You are joking, right? Do ou really expect the president of the US to sit down with the bastard responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans? Only if bin laden's "dinner" is a needle loaded with cyanide.
 
Nanhesru Ningyake
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>You are joking, right?
I was just imagining an Utopian world where by sowing the seeds of peace, today's enemies can be tomorrow's comrades - all working in harmony towards betterment of humanity.
 
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<marquee behavior="alternate"> I want peace! </marquee>

------------------
Muhammad Ashikuzzaman (Fahim)
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java� 2 Platform
--When you learn something, learn it by heart!
[This message has been edited by Ashik uzzaman (edited September 15, 2001).]
 
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