Do you have what it takes to be President?

[Bert Bates]

Dang, I always find these things long after the good stuff!
Too bad, I'm doing a quasi-reverse-hijack...
Do any of you agree with me and the American Library Association that this administration's policies (namely the so-called "patriot act"), have severly impinged on American's civil liberties?

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Bert Bates:
Do any of you agree with me and the American Library Association that this administration's policies (namely the so-called "patriot act"), have severly impinged on American's civil liberties?

I will readily admit that I'm not extremely familiar with all that the Patriot Act encompasses (guess I should do my homework), but from the little I do know about it, I'm not all that thrilled with it. I think Ashcroft and company took advantage of 9/11 to get some things passed that they wanted done for a long time (although that's just supposition on my part and I can't back it up).
Btw Bert, you do know what you could be getting yourself into by jumping into one of these threads, right?
[ November 19, 2003: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]

[John Smith]

Jason: The Ten Worst Stock Market Crashes of All Time (as of 10/28/02)
Source: About.com
Date Started | Date Ended | Number of Days | Total Loss
=======================================================
4/17/1930 | 7/8/1932 | 813 | -86.0%
3/10/1937 | 3/31/1938 | 386 | -49.1%
1/19/1906 | 11/15/1907 | 665 | -48.5%
9/3/1929 | 11/13/1929 | 71 | -47.9%
11/3/1919 | 8/24/1921 | 660 | -46.6%
6/17/1901 | 11/9/1903 | 875 | -46.1%
1/11/1973 | 12/06/1974 | 694 | -45.1%
9/12/1939 | 4/28/1942 | 959 | -40.4%
11/21/1916 | 12/19/1917 | 393 | -40.1%
9/7/1932 | 2/27/1933 | 173 | -37.2%

Depends what benchmark you are using to measure the largest declines. From the high in March 2000 to the low in October 2002, Nasdac dropped about 83%, which is a tremendous decline. I wouldn't use it as an argument against Bush, however, -- it's not the job of the US president to make sure that the widows don't participate in manias.

[Mapraputa Is]

Bert: Dang, I always find these things long after the good stuff!
What do you mean - "after the good stuff"? We are only on the third page!

[Bert Bates]

Jason-
Point taken , there are way too many really smart people around here for me to do anything but tread very lightly...

[Joe King]

There are no crimes that justify a death penalty.
When we look at countries like Saudi Ariabia, we say how barbaric it is that they punish crimes like theft by cutting off the thief's hand. Countries that have capital punishment are no less barbaric for executing people. A far better way would be to have life imprisonment. What if a retrial found a person inocent? It'd be too late if they had been killed. Maybe the Texans execute so many people because they want to save on prison costs. Maybe its because it is, like many middle eastern countries condemed by the US as having too harsh punishments, run by religious fundementalists.
Does it act as a deterent? Maybe, maybe not. I dount it acts as any more of a deterent than a life in a skanky prison.

[Paul Stevens]

Originally posted by Joe King:
There are no crimes that justify a death penalty.
When we look at countries like Saudi Ariabia, we say how barbaric it is that they punish crimes like theft by cutting off the thief's hand. Countries that have capital punishment are no less barbaric for executing people. A far better way would be to have life imprisonment. What if a retrial found a person inocent? It'd be too late if they had been killed. Maybe the Texans execute so many people because they want to save on prison costs. Maybe its because it is, like many middle eastern countries condemed by the US as having too harsh punishments, run by religious fundementalists.
Does it act as a deterent? Maybe, maybe not. I dount it acts as any more of a deterent than a life in a skanky prison.

Do you also think 5-10 years is an adequate sentence for gunning down a convenience store clerk for 100 dollars in the register? What about the guilty that get off? Are you as concerned about them?

[Joe King]

Originally posted by Paul Stevens:


Do you also think 5-10 years is an adequate sentence for gunning down a convenience store clerk for 100 dollars in the register? What about the guilty that get off? Are you as concerned about them?

I'm not saying people should get off lightly - I think people should have life imprisonment instead of being executed. That way there is the possibility for appeal in the future. Killing someone should also only ever be the last resort, not something to do when there are other options.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Bert Bates:
Do any of you agree with me and the American Library Association that this administration's policies (namely the so-called "patriot act"), have severly impinged on American's civil liberties?

Why don't you tell us which aspect of the Patriot Act has you worried? Personally, I don't feel any of my rights have been impinged but then I'm not planning to blow up any airplanes. Perhaps if I was a terrorist I might be more upset.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Joe King:
There are no crimes that justify a death penalty.

So Hitler should have been put in prison if he had been captured?
-------------------
A little aside:
There is an interesting incident that occurred recently. A prisoner in Pennsylvania who had been sentenced to death in the 70's had his sentence commuted to life when the Supreme Court overturned the death penalty. He went on to become a model prisoner and after having served 25 years, the governor of Pennsylvania gave him probabtion. Within three weeks of his release he had murdered two people and raped another in NY.
--------------------

[Michael Ernest]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
So Hitler should have been put in prison if he had been captured?

That would be my choice.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
That would be my choice.

So then is there any crime that you can imagine that would deserve the death penalty? Earlier you said yes but that apparently isn;t the case.

[Richard Hawkes]

Originally posted by Joe King:
There are no crimes that justify a death penalty ... A far better way would be to have life imprisonment. What if a retrial found a person inocent? It'd be too late if they had been killed.
Actually I think the death sentence is very appealing as a means of justice, however your last point is the most valid and the only reason I don't support a death penalty. People have been wrongly convicted in the past therefore a life in prison is the only safe and ethical solution.