Bear Bibeault wrote:I'm amused at how this conversation has devolved to be about certifications, as if that has anything whatsoever to do with how "good" a language is (or language user, for that matter).
Like David, when evaluating a candidate, certifications are a non-factor.
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Jelle Klap wrote:Why limit yourself to a single (scripting) language or platform? Multidisciplinarity is key.
Java is not 'better' than .NET/C#, nor is .NET/C# 'better' than Java. They're different.
Depending on the problem you're trying to solve and the context in which you are trying to solve it, one might be better suited than the other.
The right tool for the right job, so to speak. So compare features, benefits and drawbacks, and pick the one that suits your needs/expectations best.
But which ever one you pick, don't make the mistake of ignoring the other.
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Jimmy Clark wrote: How much COBOL programming have you done and what are the data file sizes that you have worked with?
Jimmy Clark wrote: The other aspect to consisder is the data storage mechanisms and the relationship between the database and the applications. Oracle has very powerful Pro*COBOL components that enable extreme data processing speeds.
Mehdi Ben Larbi wrote:
I just want to highlight this point,when you see a job proposal,it says Java/J2EE developer not developer.
So why can't i stick with the language i like and try to improve as much as i can in it,wouldn't it be more beneficial than trying to learn many languages and stay average in all of them ?
Henry Wong wrote:
Mehdi Ben Larbi wrote:
I just want to highlight this point,when you see a job proposal,it says Java/J2EE developer not developer.
So why can't i stick with the language i like and try to improve as much as i can in it,wouldn't it be more beneficial than trying to learn many languages and stay average in all of them ?
How do you "try to improve as much as [you] can" when you don't know what to improve on? How do you improve on something when you don't get a chance to practice it? Languages are not completely interchangeable. Different languages do things differently.
Try some time learning SQL. You may not become an expert on it, but it may help your understanding of JTA or JDBC. Try some time learning prolog. You will definitely not become an expert on it, but you will get much better with recursion. Try some time learning HTML, javascript, CSS, etc. You definitely won't become an expert, but it will help you understands how to write servlets better. And my favorite rant, learn assembly. I really hate it when Java developers can't do simple bitwise math. Or understand the basics about hardware resources.
Henry
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Pat Farrell wrote:I'd start with C# just because the Microsoft tools are good.
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Mehdi Ben Larbi wrote:That's exactly what i said,i prefer to learn languages that could help me improve in Java than to learn C# ( which i tired and didn't like at all ).
Rob Prime wrote:SharpDevelop may be a good, free alternative, but that's not a Microsoft tool. In Java you can use NetBeans or Eclipse as fully free, fully functional IDEs. Having used both SharpDevelop and Eclipse, I highly prefer the latter.
Rob Prime wrote:
That's a matter of opinion of course. Visual Studio 2008 is a very expensive investment*. Sure, you can start with Studio Express, but that's a crippled version.
* An investment high enough for me to not use it.
David Newton wrote:
Mehdi Ben Larbi wrote:That's exactly what i said,i prefer to learn languages that could help me improve in Java than to learn C# ( which i tired and didn't like at all ).
Try harder. It *would* improve your Java, because it has some features that Java just doesn't have. It wouldn't be my *first* choice, but it's not an unreasonable one. And why didn't you like it? How long did you spend with it? How did you "try"?
David Newton wrote:
Try harder. It *would* improve your Java, because it has some features that Java just doesn't have. It wouldn't be my *first* choice, but it's not an unreasonable one. And why didn't you like it? How long did you spend with it? How did you "try"?
I always tell people to learn a Lisp, Smalltalk, assembly of some sort, C, Forth, and an FP language.
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Mehdi Ben Larbi wrote:I have nothing against C#
David Newton wrote:
You said you didn't like it.
SCJP 93 % ,preparing for SCWCD
Henry Wong wrote:
Rob Prime wrote:SharpDevelop may be a good, free alternative, but that's not a Microsoft tool. In Java you can use NetBeans or Eclipse as fully free, fully functional IDEs. Having used both SharpDevelop and Eclipse, I highly prefer the latter.
There's an alternative to Visual Studio? I did not know that. And while you are on the subject....
Does it handle regular C? regular C++? ie... non .NET apps as well? And does it have certain features like integration to CVS, SVN ?
Rob Prime wrote:
That's a matter of opinion of course. Visual Studio 2008 is a very expensive investment*. Sure, you can start with Studio Express, but that's a crippled version.
* An investment high enough for me to not use it.
Interestingly, for the last two companies that I worked for... Microsoft has a really good reputation for Visual Studio. I requested it, thinking that I may not get it -- not only did I get it, but I got it as part of a MSDN subscription, which is much much more expensive.
Henry
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Yogesh Tyagi
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just click on the control & you done with the code, but some languages like C, C++ or Java don't provide this facility.
David Newton wrote:So... you don't really have a reason to dislike C#-the-language, I guess. Fair enough. It is *similar* to Java, but has features Java simply doesn't have and cannot emulate in reasonable ways.
I'm always careful about making comparisons between things when I don't really have a solid understanding of the things I'm comparing.
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David Newton wrote:
just click on the control & you done with the code, but some languages like C, C++ or Java don't provide this facility.
Sure they do; even Pascal did.
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Rob Prime wrote:
David Newton wrote:
just click on the control & you done with the code, but some languages like C, C++ or Java don't provide this facility.
Sure they do; even Pascal did.
It's not a language feature, it's an IDE feature. You probably were thinking about Borland Delphi. Borland has created IDEs with graphical designers for C++ and Java as well.
Yogesh Tyagi
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Mehdi Ben Larbi wrote:
It's only a personal feeling,as a student i can't learn C# as i would like to because of all the licensed stuff and it's frustrating.
That's why i said that i dislike C#,i never tried to compare Java and C# or criticize C#'s feature because i know that i have limited knowledge.
Rob Prime wrote:
David Newton wrote:
just click on the control & you done with the code, but some languages like C, C++ or Java don't provide this facility.
Sure they do; even Pascal did.
It's not a language feature, it's an IDE feature. You probably were thinking about Borland Delphi. Borland has created IDEs with graphical designers for C++ and Java as well.
Wasn't that the Aesop fable "the Fox and the Grapes"?Henry Wong wrote: . . . You do know that that is the origin of the term "sour grapes" right? . . .
Campbell Ritchie wrote:
Wasn't that the Aesop fable "the Fox and the Grapes"?Henry Wong wrote: . . . You do know that that is the origin of the term "sour grapes" right? . . .
Henry Wong wrote:
Rob Prime wrote:
David Newton wrote:
just click on the control & you done with the code, but some languages like C, C++ or Java don't provide this facility.
Sure they do; even Pascal did.
It's not a language feature, it's an IDE feature. You probably were thinking about Borland Delphi. Borland has created IDEs with graphical designers for C++ and Java as well.
Java went through this phase about 10 years ago. This was during the beginning of Java Beans. No need to actually code. Just drag and drop some beans. Config some stuff. And ... the code is autogenerated for you.
Of course, this phase always ends with ... as programs get larger, you get spaghetti code. And when everything is connected with lines and symbols, it actually does look like spaghetti (with meatballs even).
Henry
Yogesh Tyagi
SCJP1.5, SCWCD5.0, SCBCD5.0
Andrew Monkhouse wrote:
Vishal Kashyap wrote:C# is also a platform Independent language
It's only truly platform independent if you count Microsoft Windows XP as a different platform to Microsoft Windows 7 and they are both different platforms from Microsoft Windows Vista ...
Try and get a copy of the Microsoft .Net CLI for any non-Microsoft platform: not going to happen. The best you can hope for is the independently created Mono and DotGNU systems. And even then you have to hope that these independent developers have implemented enough of the Microsoft .Net CLI to meet your needs; and that they have either developed a release for your platform or that you can compile it yourself on your platform; and that they have not infringed on any of Microsoft's IP (which could get them shut down).
As others have mentioned, there are some really good things about C#, and different requirements call for different tools.
Jimmy Clark wrote:
Mainframe COBOL executes MILLIONS OF INSTRUCTIONS PER SECOND...that is MILLIONS in a single second. A JRE will never be able to compete with this
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It's only a personal feeling,as a student i can't learn C# as i would like to because of all the licensed stuff and it's frustrating.
That's why i said that i dislike C#,i never tried to compare Java and C# or criticize C#'s feature because i know that i have limited knowledge.
OCPJP 6 | CompTIA A+, Security+, Network+, Project + | IBM AS/400 RPG Programmer, iSeries System Administration V5R2, Power Systems Technical Support for i | CIW Associate, Professional, Web Development Professional | MCTS
Mark Kramer wrote:I would expect a language compiled to native machine code like COBOL to outperform a JIT language like Java though, regardless of platform.
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Kaustubh G Sharma wrote:I think java is more original than C# and secondly it is an open source which makes is more popular and famous.
I understand that C# and .NET is open source if you're into Microsoft's "what is your's is mine and what is mine is mine" open source philosophy
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Pranab Das, PMP, SCEA
If we try to stick to object orientation, then probably we can transgress boundaries of languages.
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sasank manohar wrote:I think .NET Is also open source. Only thing is we have pay for the Visual studio IDE . Vs pro is around $799. But we have netbeans,eclipse are free of cost. But I suppose both are not as effective as vs IDE . you can download .NET FROM MICROSOFT WEBSITE and start prog
.net framework is Open source if you are using Windows (which is not Open Source)
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