Mandatory Course Requirement for OCMJD & OCMJEA starting October 1st

[Roel De Nijs]

from the official page:

I completed a course prior to the Oracle transition, will that course count toward certification?
Only the courses on the list above will count towards the training requirement. Earlier versions of these courses will not count. The list of approved courses is subject to modification/expansion as new courses are released and older courses retire

I think this question describes your situation best and I'll think your course will be accepted, but to know for sure just contact [e-mail] and ask!

[Roel De Nijs]

Ivan Krizsan wrote:Bad news, boys and girls.
I wrote to Oracle and asked about resubmitting a failed assignment after August 1st and received this answer:

Yes, if the candidate has to retake any exam or assignment after 01 Aug 2011, then they have to complete the Hands-on course requirement.
Regards,
OCP Team

Enjoy!

That's contradictory with one of their previous responses.

[Marcel van den Boer]

Ivan Krizsan wrote:Bad news, boys and girls.
I wrote to Oracle and asked about resubmitting a failed assignment after August 1st and received this answer:

Yes, if the candidate has to retake any exam or assignment after 01 Aug 2011, then they have to complete the Hands-on course requirement.
Regards,
OCP Team

Enjoy!

Guess I'll have to pass on the first try anyway then .

[Malte Wannerskog]

Does anyone know for a fact that you actually have to attend an instructor-lead course and that it's not enough with a self-study cd-rom?

Reading at Important Changes to Java, and Oracle Solaris Certifications it says
"One of the courses in each list below will be required for each certification path. Candidates do not need to complete more than one course for each certification path."

It does not say that you have to participate in an instructor-lead course?

[Roel De Nijs]

Malte Wannerskog wrote:It does not say that you have to participate in an instructor-lead course?

Maybe you should read a bit more carefully. Beneath the overview of the certification paths with the approved trainings, you can read the following:
*Approved Training:
Only instructor-led in-Class or instructor-led online courses (includes Live Web Classes – LWC and Live Virtual classes – LVC) from the above approved list of Oracle University courses count toward the training requirement. Self Study CD-Rom and Knowledge Center (including Recorded Web Courses – RWC) courses are excellent study and reference tools but DO NOT meet the Hands-on Course Requirement for certification.

[Malte Wannerskog]

Roel De Nijs wrote:

Malte Wannerskog wrote:It does not say that you have to participate in an instructor-lead course?

Maybe you should read a bit more carefully. Beneath the overview of the certification paths with the approved trainings, you can read the following:
*Approved Training:
Only instructor-led in-Class or instructor-led online courses (includes Live Web Classes – LWC and Live Virtual classes – LVC) from the above approved list of Oracle University courses count toward the training requirement. Self Study CD-Rom and Knowledge Center (including Recorded Web Courses – RWC) courses are excellent study and reference tools but DO NOT meet the Hands-on Course Requirement for certification.

Sorry, should have read more carefully. Thanks for the info!

[Shiva.Om Kumar]

In short -


-Cheap step
-Disappointing
-Frustrating

this decision s***s...

Oracle may feel it would be beneficial to them, but ultimately they will loose money in long run.

Or Oracle may have goal to restrict people (have fewer people in market) with certifications because of some hidden reason...

I wish I could take this exam before Aug, seems not possible... after Aug, all doors would be virtually closed for me to take SCEA...as I can not afford 3000$ for such training...

Oracle is supposed to control the exam and not bind such training with exam.... I am very upset by thinking that I would not be able to participate in SCEA....

go to hell....

[Shiva.Om Kumar]

Sean Keane wrote:I think we all agree the introduction of courses as a requirement is a negative thing. So how about some concrete ideas of trying to persuade Oracle to change their mind?

I'll get the ball rolling .

1) We could create an online petition http://www.petitiononline.com/create_petition.html
2) We could mass email Oracle

If anyone has any ideas of how to get this story into the media, I think that would be useful, as a company is much more likely to change their mind due to negative publicity about their company rather than people simply complaining - I'm sure they expected people to complain when the cost of the certification increased five fold!!!

It sounds good step, instead of just banging our head on wall... there is no surety that Orcale will listen to us, but at least we can let them know how we think (as a first step)?

[Cristian Chiovari]

Just started preparation for SCEA but this prerequisite course smashed me like a hammer in head.
I have more then 10 year of JEE exp. so the course for me would not be an added value.
Anyway I noticed that instructor-led online courses (includes Live Web Classes) are accepted.

Now funny part is coming....prices are different in each country.

For the one where I live now is 3000 euro and the one from where I come from is about 1000 dollars )
for the same Developing Applications for the Java EE 6 Platform (online course)

Is this ok....or is a mistake ?

Another point is that this certfication is deprecated !!! and they just make it more difficult to achive
Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect

At least it would be nice to have Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 6 Enterprise Architect

Thanks

Cristian

[joshi deepika]

deadline is not 1 Aug but Virtually it is May 30. I have checked 10 sites for Part 1 in MA, USA and none of them has date for conducting the exam in June & July .
Is oracle gone made or its oracle's habit to have mean practices?

[Jonathan Elkharrat]

joshi deepika wrote:deadline is not 1 Aug but Virtually it is May 30. I have checked 10 sites for Part 1 in MA, USA and none of them has date for conducting the exam in June & July .
Is oracle gone made or its oracle's habit to have mean practices?

you checked with prometric?
have a look here!

[Charles Wu]

I realize the course itself also has "Required Prerequisites"

For example,
Developing Architectures for Enterprise Java Applications (SL-425)

* Describe, in outline form, all Java EE technologies, including Enterprise JavaBeans, servlets, JavaServer Pages, and JavaServer Faces.
* Describe distributed computing and communication concepts
* Perform analysis and design of object-oriented software systems
* Use UML notation for modeling object-oriented systems
* Developing Applications for the Java EE 5 Platform (FJ-310-EE5)
* Object-Oriented Analysis and Design Using UML (OO-226)


And Object-Oriented Analysis and Design Using UML (OO-226)

* Understand object-oriented concepts and methodology
* Demonstrate a general understanding of programming, preferably using the Java programming language
* Understand the fundamentals of the systems development process
* Java Programming Language, Java SE 6 (SL-275-SE6)


Does it mean even Oracle listed the choice of courses. But if you have nil history of any courses, you only choice is "Java Programming Language, Java SE 6" ??!!


Java Programming Language, Java SE 6
Object-Oriented Analysis and Design Using UML
Developing Applications for the Java EE 6 Platform
Developing Architectures for Enterprise Java Applications

[Rafal Kawecki]

Hi all,

I was trying to read this thread very carefully but there is a lot of info. I found this on the first page:

Sean Keane wrote:

...

I would read this differently. I would have thought that once you submit your assignment and get the exam done before the 1st August, then you will not have to do a course. Does this sound correct?

Can someone please confirm that it is enough just to take the essay part and then submit my assignment before the 1st August (time taken by Oracle to grade it does not count) to avoid the course ?

If yes I hope I will finish it but I am not happy I need to sprint (da**it I hate it).

Thanks in advance.

[Roel De Nijs]

If you submit both parts before August 1, 2011 you don't have to fulfill the mandatory course requirement. But if you have to resubmit the assignment (when you fail, which is unlikely) after August 1, 2011 you'll have to take the mandatory course requirement according to the latest information from Oracle (which contradicts with their earlier reponse on the same question)

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Charles Wu wrote:I realize the course itself also has "Required Prerequisites"...

Does it mean even Oracle listed the choice of courses. But if you have nil history of any courses, you only choice is "Java Programming Language, Java SE 6" ??!!

Even though they call them required prerequisites, I think they mean that the knowledge is required. I don't think the prereqs are enforced like they would be at a college.

[Rafal Kawecki]

Roel De Nijs wrote:If you submit both parts before August 1, 2011 you don't have to fulfill the mandatory course requirement. But if you have to resubmit the assignment (when you fail, which is unlikely) after August 1, 2011 you'll have to take the mandatory course requirement according to the latest information from Oracle (which contradicts with their earlier reponse on the same question)

Thanks for the answer.

[Cristian Chiovari]

A prerequisite is Java Programming Language, Java SE 6 .

For me then it really make sense if you are a Sun Certified Professional for Java 6 to be able to take SCEA without attending any other course. because they put
this course as prerequisite ( Java Programming Language, Java SE 6)

based on my logic any person who is java certified should be able to take SCEA without any other requirements....

am i wrong ?

[Roel De Nijs]

Cristian Chiovari wrote:am i wrong ?

Yes, you are wrong! After August 1, 2011 you have to fulfill 2 requirements:

you must be a OCPJP (or the former SCJP) (not needed for OCMJEA)

you must follow an instructor-led course from the list mentioned on the official course pages, no matter which certifications you already have

[Cristian Chiovari]

Thanks Roel for the response ....

I was just saying that SCJP should be enough..not that is enough because they put as a Course Requirement the Java Fundamentals which for a SCJP really does not really matter because I assume someone who took SCJP knows fundamentals of JAVA.

However....i notices in your answer something else : is mandatory now to be SCJP certified for SCEA ? (previously this certification din not required other certification)

Cheers

Cristian

[Roel De Nijs]

Cristian Chiovari wrote:However....i notices in your answer something else : is mandatory now to be SCJP certified for SCEA ? (previously this certification din not required other certification)

My mistake For every possible java certification (except scja & scjp) you needed to be scjp certified, so I assumed it was the same for SCEA, but you don't need any other certification.

[Shiva.Om Kumar]

Roel De Nijs wrote:

Cristian Chiovari wrote:However....i notices in your answer something else : is mandatory now to be SCJP certified for SCEA ? (previously this certification din not required other certification)

My mistake For every possible java certification (except scja & scjp) you needed to be scjp certified, so I assumed it was the same for SCEA, but you don't need any other certification.

Irony is that after 31st July 2011, a SCJP (certified Java Programmer) won't be eligible to take SCEA, but a person who has attended Oracle's Java Programming course would be eligible to take SCEA.... money game?

[Cristian Chiovari]

rony is that after 31st July 2011, a SCJP (certified Java Programmer) won't be eligible to take SCEA, but a person who has attended Oracle's Java Programming course would be eligible to take SCEA.

Yeee exaclty !!! That is what i tried to emphasize !!!

For me this is very stupid !!!

[Rahul Sudip Bose]

How can common folks like us "convince" oracle to change things for the better ? Such arm-twisting tactics are a bad sign for the future.
1 way to avoid the greedy tentacles of Oracle : Look for employers dont value certifications too much and look at real knowledge and experience instead.

PS : Larry Ellison, dont complain if this happens to you some day - scrapeTV

WIKIPEDIA wrote:Lawrence Joseph "Larry" Ellison (born August 17, 1944) is an American business magnate, co-founder and chief executive officer of Oracle Corporation, a major enterprise software company. As of 2011 he is the fifth[3] richest person in the world, with a personal wealth of $39.5 billion.

Looks like Larry is not happy with the fifth position.

[Shiva.Om Kumar]

Rahul Sudip Bose wrote:How can common folks like us "convince" oracle to change things for the better ? Such arm-twisting tactics are a bad sign for the future.
1 way to avoid the greedy tentacles of Oracle : Look for employers dont value certifications too much and look at real knowledge and experience instead.

PS : Larry Ellison, dont complain if this happens to you some day - scrapeTV

WIKIPEDIA wrote:Lawrence Joseph "Larry" Ellison (born August 17, 1944) is an American business magnate, co-founder and chief executive officer of Oracle Corporation, a major enterprise software company. As of 2011 he is the fifth[3] richest person in the world, with a personal wealth of $39.5 billion.

Looks like Larry is not happy with the fifth position.

Oracle is exploring something to get more money; but sometimes organizations miscalculate & acknowledge the mistakes which back fires. So this is going to be one of such incident. Can you believe a person who want to take SCJD (Developer Certification) would pay US$ 3000 for 4 days Java Programming or developer training? Policy makers who doesn't belongs to grass-root audience makes such mistakes.

Whoever has proposed such change believes that Java Associates can afford this, because he might have paid 100k for his/her MBA or higher studies and in dreams might be thinking that if s/he can pay 100k for higher studies, this is just 3k and s/he might get promoted for such evolution.

Don't worry, if you are eager for certification, take it know or wait for couple of months; I am certain that Oracle will bend it's policy.
But I am following first choice (attempting now).

[viv anand]

Hi,
I am preparing for OCMJEA(Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect) and completed step 1 and working on assignment (part 2). I expect to complete the assignment by the mid of July. I intend to take the step 3 exam sometime in the last week of July. As per new certification policy, those who don't complete certification by 31st July will need to complete classroom course.

1) As per my time-lines, what if my result is not out by 31st July? I will have my all exams given by 31st July. If my result is not out by 31st July, will I need to attend classroom course?

2) If I get my result sometimes in the August( though I will have my all exams given by 31st July) and find that I have failed on the assignment, can I resubmit my assignment in the month of August/September without attending classroom course? I am asking this question because in OTN discussion forum, they are telling that I need to attend the classroom course as I need to resubmit the assignment (part 2) afresh but in this forum it is written in FAQ that I don't need to attend classroom course in case of resubmission of part-2 even it is after 31st July. I am getting confused.Please help.

[Roel De Nijs]

If you submit all parts of the certification before August 1st, you don't have to fulfill the mandatory course requirement (so you don't have to attend a classroom course).

When you fail and you have to resubmit 1 or more parts of the certification, you must attend a classroom course. That's according to the latest information from Oracle (in the beginning Oracle said otherwise, but recently they changed their opinion, that's why you get confused).

[oli mueller]

Hi guys,

I have registered for the Developer Exm at the beginning of the year 2011. Right now I am nearer to the end of finishing the URLY Bird Application.....

(1) DO I UNDERSTAND THIS THREAD CORRECLY, THAT I WILL HAVE TO DO THIS ADDITIONAL TRAINING EVEN THOUGH I HAVE REGISTERED FOR THE EXAM IN EARLY 2011???
Normally, I would assume the new rule should apply to NEW applicants registering AFTER the specified date....

(2) if they really require people who have already registered to take those stupid courses, AM I CORRECT TO GET AWAY WITH BY HURRYING UP AND SUBMITTING MY EARLY BIRD BEFORE JULY 31st or do I have to do the exam as well before July 31st???


Thanks....that post ruined my weekend....bloody oracle....

[oli mueller]

Hi guys,

let me get this straight: I have downloaded the SCJD UrlyBird Application in the beginning of the year and i am currently programming it. I was orginallly planning to submit in september or so....because according to the description you have one year.

(1) Is it correct, that i do have to hand in my urlybird application AND take the exam before 1st August??... Or is it enough to hand in the urly bird before 1st August???...

this has ruined my weekend...stupid oracle!..

[Roel De Nijs]

Hi Oli,

You have to submit both parts (assignment and essay exam) before August 1, 2011 if you don't want to follow the mandatory course.

You can always send an e-mail to Oracle ([e-mail]) and ask for some clarification. I think you have a good point in your 1st post (the new rule should apply to NEW applicants registering AFTER the specified date), so I would certainly investigate that further and send the e-mail (but don't end your e-mail with the final 2 words in both your posts )
I would also add another question to the e-mail: what if you fail and have to resubmit after August 1, 2011.

And it would be nice if you give some feedback about Oracle's answers in this thread.

Kind regards,
Roel

[oli mueller]

Thanks Roel...I will send the email today....and by the way: my compliments and regards to an outstanding forum moderation!!
Have a nice sunday everybody.

[Roel De Nijs]

oli mueller wrote:my compliments and regards to an outstanding forum moderation!!

Thanks Oli, it's always nice to see that our efforts are highly appreciated

[oli mueller]

Hello,

This is Oracle's reply to my inquiry - obviously, they just dont care....really unfair I think. I can only encourage people to send them their complaints and avoid the company as much as they can!!!

Dear Madams and Sirs,

I have read that you have recently changed your regulations regarding the former "Sun Certified Java Developer" Certification. More specifically, it is said that the new certification requires the attendance of special training courses, unless everything (the UrlyBird application (Java Developer Assignment 310-252A) and the essay (310-027)) have been completed by 31st July 2011.

I would be grateful for the following clarification on this matter:

(1) I have purchased the URLYBird Test on January 17 2011, based on the clear expectation of cost and time this would involve according to YOUR regulations stated at this time. I therefore, assume that I will not be required to attend any additional courses because these changes have been introduced and publish AFTER I have purchased my test. Is this correct? At the time I purchased the test, it was clearly stated that I have 1 year to complete the test and that there will be no additional courses - it would therefore be highly unfair to impose new regulations to applicants who have already started!

(2) If I submit my assigment before July 31st 2011 and if I fail, will I be able to resubmit WITHOUT attending the additional training courses??

I look forward to your reply and I hope that Oracle takes the concerns of their customers seriously and treats them fairly. Please find below my certification purchase details.

Kind regards,


===> Their answer ===>

Hi,

Thanks for mailing Oracle Certification Program.

Here are the answers to your queries:

It is important that you submit your assignments allowing enough time to take the Essay Exam and to resubmit the assignment if you happen to fail the first attempt. Your assignment will take four weeks to grade and must be submitted prior to registering for the essay.

You should submit your assignment, allowing four weeks for grading plus any additional time you will need to take the essay and resubmit the assignment in the event you do not pass initially. Keep in mind that completion of your essay will depend on test center availability.

In order to ensure that you have at least one week to resubmit if you fail, you should submit your assignment and complete your essay by June 25, 2011. Any assignments and essays submitted after June 25 cannot be guaranteed to receive a grade in time to resubmit before the July 31 deadline.

If you receive a failing grade on your assignment after July 31, 2011, you will be required to resubmit the assignment and meet the training requirement. You should also note that it is your responsibility to ensure you have enough time to complete the essay after submitting the assignment, allowing for limited test appointments.

Oracle will not be able to extend the deadline for candidates who submitted their assignments too close to the deadline and were unable to get an essay appointment in time.


Regards,
OCP Team

[Roel De Nijs]

Hi Oli,

Not the answer you were hoping for and also a bit contradictory to the advice I gave you in another thread. Seems Oracle changes their mind once in a while.

Thanks for sharing Oracle's answer, it will be a very valuable post in the near future.

Kind regards,
Roel

[Bernd Wollny]

Hi all,

good news for everyone who has already taken one of these courses in the past. My question:

I have already taken the needed course last year (2010/08/09 to 2010/08/12), does it count if i will start my Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect certification?

Oracle's answer:

Hi Bernd,

We are sorry for the confusion.

Please note that the course (Developing Architectures for Enterprise Java Applications) which you have completed from BOS-it (the company) will fulfill the Hands on course requirement towards Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect certification track. You do not need to do the course again.

Regards,
OCP Team

Greetz Bernd

[Claudio Lande]

Hi all,

I just sent an email to Oracle complaining about the new certification requirements. I recommend everybody do the same to try put some pressure on Oracle to reconsider their decision.

Cheers

[Christian Halbig]

Hi all

I might have some information which might be useful for you guys as well.
A short disclaimer: I don't know if this is a world-wide problem, or just EMEA.

I'm going to finish my assignment by end of May. I just tried to have a look on the Pearson VUE website to see what kind of test centers are available, the dates, etc.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any information on the "1Z0-856 Java Standard Edition 6 Developer Certified Master Essay Exam". So I called Pearson VUE and after some while on the phone, the customer service representative found one single information and forwarded me an email with instructions I would like to share with you:

-----------------------------

I already returned my completed Assignment to Oracle via email, but I haven’t done the Essay yet. What do I need to do?

Follow these steps to establish your Pearson VUE account. You will need to upload the Assignment again, online, to Pearson VUE. This is required to establish your identity in the online grading system and to create your eligibility for the Essay. We appreciate your understanding.

1. Contact [e-mail] to get a voucher that can be used to resubmit the Assignment at Pearson VUE

2. If you don’t have one yet, create a Pearson VUE web account at pearsonvue.com/oracle; make sure to use your Oracle Testing ID (previously Prometric ID) to set up your Pearson VUE web account.

3. Using the voucher, access the Assignment online at pearsonvue.com/oracle by selecting one of the below test numbers from the available Assignments

4. Your voucher will give you access to a special form of the Assignment, where you can upload your completed work.

-----------------------------

I will now try to contact Oracle to get my voucher.

Can you guys register for the essay?

Best rgds
Christian

[Christian Halbig]

Here's the answer:

Assignment purchase and submission is temporarily on hold while we ramp up our new system for submission. Candidates will be able to begin submitting assignments again on June 1, 2011. On June 1, please follow the steps below:

1. Contact us (at [e-mail]) to request a voucher that will allow you to submit the assignment.
2. Create a Pearson VUE web account at pearsonvue.com/oracle if you do not already have one.
3. Access the assignment online at pearsonvue.com/oracle, using test number 1Z0-848 for the Architect assignment and 1Z0-844 for the Developer assignment.
4. Using your voucher code to access one of these tests will place you into a special form of the assignment where you can upload your completed work.
5. You will not be eligible to register for the essay until you have submitted your assignment.

We apologize for the inconvenience caused.

Cheers
Christian

[Milton Ochoa]

Christian Halbig wrote:Assignment purchase and submission is temporarily on hold while we ramp up our new system for submission. Candidates will be able to begin submitting assignments again on June 1, 2011.

Today, the assignments still not available on pearsonvue.

Waiting for tomorrow....

[Roel De Nijs]

Milton Ochoa wrote:Today, the assignments still not available on pearsonvue.

Maybe it wasn't already June 1 for Pearson VUE (time zones you know)