• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Paul Clapham
  • Ron McLeod
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Liutauras Vilda
Sheriffs:
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Junilu Lacar
  • Henry Wong
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Jj Roberts
  • Tim Holloway
  • Piet Souris
Bartenders:
  • Himai Minh
  • Carey Brown
  • salvin francis

Teaching Java Talk @ JavaOne

 
Author
Posts: 6049
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
JavaOne talk proposals are open and I'm trying to decide if I want to submit any talks. I'm thinking of maybe doing a talk on Java education. I'm not sure what specifically--any ideas for topics?
One idea is about certs--how valuable are they really? (It will depend on whether or not Sun gives me the information I've requested.) Maybe another on what needs to be taught along with Java to make it useful.
I'm open to submitting with co-speakers if someone is interested.
--Mark
 
gunslinger & author
Posts: 151
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've tried to propose teaching Java talks at JavaOne for the past two years, and never received other than a form letter response. I'm game for trying again, though.
Maybe if enough people proposed teaching topics, they'd add a session for us.
 
mister krabs
Posts: 13974
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe they don't want any competition for SunEd. Or it might be that they don't think enough Java instructors attend SunOne.
 
Kenneth A. Kousen
gunslinger & author
Posts: 151
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Personally, I think both of those are true. Maybe we just need a critical mass, though. After all, until recently there wasn't a Teaching Java forum here, either...
 
Cowgirl and Author
Posts: 1589
5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There is absolutely NO concern in the selection process for reducing competition with SunEd. I won't go into the politics, but for a long time, the Java software group barely acknowledged that SunEd existed, and they promoted (and worked with) other third-party training groups far more than with SunEd.
The selection committee *tries* to pick what they think people are interested in, but personally, it doesn't look like they always do a very good job at that either. They base it partly on how the previous year's sessions were evaluated and attended, as well as what they *anticipate* people will want the next year, along with what they *strategically* think is a good direction to move in. But really, trust me, SunEd isn't even on the radar. If I had to guess about why teaching things aren't a big topic, it's because their hasn't been enough interest or as Kenneth said, critical mass. Although the BlueJ session *did* have a pretty good attendance this year, which I found encouraging. On the other hand, Mark's talk was *really* interesting, but at the worst possible time so it was poorly attended... which means there is no way to judge how many people might have wanted to see it if it had been at a half-way decent time.
I would say it doesn't hurt to keep trying to submit a proposal. You never know what they'll want, and I would say that an education one has a chance of getting in. There is *one* trick that one guy used once, which was to submit for a BOF a topic that was so bizarre and obscure (and in fact, he *made* up an architecture that doesn't even exist) that it was accepted. So his theory (otherwise unproven, and one data point doesn't make a technique, but still...) is that if they really don't understand it, maybe it's important enough and cutting edge enough to have in there Boy did we have a laugh over that one.
I'm definitely open to going in on any education or certification talks. There's never much interest in certification at JavaOne, but then... the beta tests that Prometric runs there are always packed to capacity. I am on the development team of virtually all of the next exams coming up, including two new ones (still can't say what they are yet) that will be out before the next JavaOne. So maybe there's something there... if you're waiting for cert info from someone there, Mark, let me know. Bert and I are usually working on some little project for them at any given moment, so we're in correspondence with them one way or the other pretty much every day.
cheers,
Kathy
 
Mark Herschberg
Author
Posts: 6049
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Kathy Sierra:
On the other hand, Mark's talk was *really* interesting


Thanks!
OK, here's are some ideas, just generally brainstorming...
  • Skills a Java developer needs
  • Common career paths of Java programmers
  • Complimentry technologies java developers should know
  • Recruiting in the Java market--soliciting feedback from developers to create guidelines for HR teams


  • Let's just start spitting out ideas and seeing what comes of it.
    WRT cert stats, I mostly gave up. I was interested in numbers like how many were certified in each level? Where they were career-wise? Any idea of the salaries before and after? What the failure rate is? etc. Just general numbers.
    --Mark
    [ October 29, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Herschberg ]
     
    High Plains Drifter
    Posts: 7289
    Netbeans IDE VI Editor
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    I've seen three streams of business activity that might lead to a more interesting proposal if we flesh them out correctly.
    1) Java APIs, in particular Servlet/JSP based application frameworks,
    are becoming more the norm. In the last 8 months I've done projects with eBay, Aventis, Telus, St. Judes, and a few NDA-types, all needing a training plan pointing to an existing development group wanting zero-to-servlet training in 4-5 days. We've developed a particular strategy to this kind of TOI-ish delivery, and it leads to some thoughts on a talk that several business owners might be interested in hearing.
    2) Customization to the business model. The naive businesses who are coming to Java by necessuty now are asking the usual questions in the usual way: They need to go to Java, so where's the recently graduated coder who understands my business domain and can get things kickstarted? Seriously, though, this dovetails somewhat into 1): what kind of training is appropriate to an experienced group that needs business insights as well as training into the language?
    3) Bringing Java to the late adopter crowd. I kid you not, this happened to me earlier this year. I went to a customer's tech faire this year, a tax & finance company having a 4/15 "day off" of training. Among the questions I fielded were these:
    "How much does it cost to license Java?"
    "Which resellers are in the area?"
    "Can Java talk to the mainframe?"
    That's right, many back-office companies are utterly clueless not just about Java, but about the whole culture it stems from. So what about a gentle approach this crowd, e.g., "Bringing the Java News to the New-to-Java?" I bet you'd stir a lot of interest in the crowd, offering a talk on bring the (even now!) entrenched and skeptical IT types to Java (and to some degree, OO programming generally).
     
    Mark Herschberg
    Author
    Posts: 6049
    2
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Michael, I find the second topic particularly interesting. The third is also potentially good--although that might be more of a marketing talk. The first may be interesting, although it's out of my domain, since I rarely do web stuff.
    --Mark
     
    Kathy Sierra
    Cowgirl and Author
    Posts: 1589
    5
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Michael -- count me in BIG TIME on the third one.
    cheers,
    Kathy
     
    tumbleweed
    Posts: 5089
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    The problem with the 3rd one is that Java gets sold to the mainframe boys, if that's the group you are talking about, as web based.
    Web based means zip to us.
     
    Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind? - Fred Rogers. Tiny ad:
    Thread Boost feature
    https://coderanch.com/t/674455/Thread-Boost-feature
    reply
      Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
    • New Topic