Originally posted by Damien Howard:
Why do students wait until it is too late to come talk to the instructor?
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
What do you do with students who the only way you can give them a passing grade is to curve the class so much that everyone else would get As?
I feel bad failing students, but there seems no way to pass them and be fair to those who earned their passing grades.
Why do students wait until it is too late to come talk to the instructor?
Originally posted by Steven Bell:
You have to fail them. It's for their own good. It's a learning process.
A failed class isn't the end of the world, even though they might think it is.
You shouldn't feel bad, unless you failed as a teacher, not if they failed to do the work.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ryan McGuire:
IMO, you have a responibility to fail those students. You owe it to the students that did put in sufficient effort and attention,
to the companies that will look at these students' transcripts prior to making a hiring decision
and even to the failing students themselves (as Steven suggested).
quote:Why do students wait until it is too late to come talk to the instructor?
A fine question.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
Why [...does the instructor owe it to students that performed to a higher level to fail the students that didn't]?
Originally posted by Ryan McGuire:
Such an grading scheme would devalue the grades that the (for the sake of discussion) harder-working students got.
A level students should get As, B level students should get Bs, etc.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
Problem is, once people begin to think about themselves as "B level students", they typically stop trying to get As.
Grading people is a strong demotivator for learning...
Originally posted by Ryan McGuire:
BUT once the policy of grading is in place, passing out inflated grades is even more demotivating.
Once a student figures out that he doesn't have to work in order to get showered with certificates and trophies, he doesn't bother putting out any effort.
What a shock such students get when they enter "the real world" and suddenly find out that they have to (*gasp*) work in order to be rewarded (i.e. paid).
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
The main point I get from the book (and I tend to agree with it from personal experience and observation) is that intrinsic motivation (such as born out of curiosity, doing something you like to do, the feeling to contribute to something worthwhile, the necessity to grow in knowledge and ability) is a much stronger and persistent driver than extrinsic motivation. There is even strong evidence that using the latter is a quite efficient way to destroy the former.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
No matter how one feels about grades, the fact is that your entire life is graded.
Your boss will grade your performance when he has to let someone go or when he is giving out raises.
The share holders will grade your company's performance and decide whether to dump your stock or boost the price.
To try to establish some touchy-feely way to let everyone pass without doing the work is how we create people who graduate from high school and yet can't read.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Whether this is true or not is irrelevant.
Most students (even the best students) will have no interest in at least some of their classes.
But the fact is that the grade is not the motivator.
The grade is the way that the student is judged to determine if they did the work.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
"We're seeing an epidemic of people who are having a hard time making the transition to work -- kids who had too much success early in life and who've become accustomed to instant gratification," says Dr. Mel Levine, a pediatrics professor at the University of North Carolina Medical School and author of a book on the topic called "Ready or Not, Here Life Comes."
Although Levine also notes that today's twentysomethings are long on idealism and altruism, "many of the individuals we see are heavily committed to something we call 'fun.' "
He partly faults coddling parents and colleges for doing little to prepare students for the realities of adulthood and setting the course for what many disillusioned twentysomethings are calling their "quarter-life crisis."
Meanwhile, employers from corporate executives to restaurateurs and retailers are frustrated.
"It seems they want and expect everything that the 20- or 30-year veteran has the first week they're there," says Mike Amos, a Salt Lake City-based franchise consultant for Perkins Restaurants.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
No. It is the job of the student to get themselves to learn something. It is the job of the school to teach.Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
In my eyes, schools main responsibility is to get people to learn something, isn't it?
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Steven Bell:
The problem as I see it is that you have to have some means to measure how much a student has learned.
If a student has not learned the required amount they cannot be allowed to progress to the next level until they do so.
The standard grading system may not be the perfect solution, but we don't live in a perfect world.
I have yet to see a better solution that actually works.
Failure is just as much a part of life as success, if not more.
Kids get nothing out of making a big deal of every little success they have and ignoring their failures.
"kids who had too much success early in life and who've become accustomed to instant gratification"
"many of the individuals we see are heavily committed to something we call 'fun.' "
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
No. It is the job of the student to get themselves to learn something. It is the job of the school to teach.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
[QB]True - it's a strong demotivator, as I said above.
You keep saying it but you offer nothing as proof.
I guarantee you that if you start up a class and in September tell that they will not be graded that most of them will do no work.
True. So the question becomes wether they actually need to learn that stuff...
And the answer is yes.
There is a lot of stuff that you NEED to know that you may have no real interest in learning.
There is a lot of stuff that students will learn because they will need to know it later when they might be interested.
And there is a lot of stuff that you need to learn that will just make you a better person
and more interesting at cocktail parties.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ryan McGuire
...to the companies that will look at these students' transcripts prior to making a hiring decision ...
amerzil co-ed student<br />"Praise be the Code"
Originally posted by Karen Baog:
here's an opinion from a student (that's me):
Why do many employers only look at the skills? Skills only play half of it. The other equally important factor is attitude.
It's easier to provide training to an employee to provide him/her more skills, but very hard to change one's attitude.
The education one gets (programming, for instance) from school only provides the basics. The real big thing is learned at work.
Karen.
With a little knowledge, a cast iron skillet is non-stick and lasts a lifetime. |