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C#

 
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Maybe not the right place. I have to say first taht I am myself is a Java Developer.
MS will release C# in the first half of the year. My question is what's your opinion on C#? How big impact will C# produce on Java developer?
My opinion is C# will perform better on MS platform than Java and just like an enhenced Java for windows.
 
mister krabs
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You are right... this is the wrong forum. Try Meaningless Drivel.
------------------
Moderator of the JDBC Forum
 
Rancher
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This is probably as good a forum as any here to discuss this. Maybe we need an "Other Languages" forum to cover C#, C++, Python, etc. and how they relate (or don't relate) to Java.
I have heard of C# but that's about all I can say. If is can only be developed and deployed on Microsoft platforms then some shops that lean more towards Microsoft may migrate towards it.
John
 
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I don't think anybody knows how well it will perform, but from what I have read, it should be easy for Java programmers to move back and forth between the two languages.
Bill
 
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Don't tell Tony you're pro-C# or you'll find yourself nuked from some flying satellite. I still think he has some control over those satellite from his time watching the stars!
-Peter
 
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I don't think that Tony is that extreme at all. He coded from binary, assembly, Fortran, Pascal, C, Java. He should be more ready to accept, in this world, there will be something other than Java, and finally replace Java.
However, I don't think that would be c#, IMHO.
Roseanne
 
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Thanks Peter and Roseanne for invoking my spirit! I am back from the Cosmic Realm now...
My answer is, to the original question "MS will release C# in the first half of the year. My question is what's your opinion on C#?":
Where were you in the Fall of 1995? I was downloading the first JDK from Sun (I don't remember if it was an alpha or a beta version!)

I did not delve into it the way I should have, but I did eventually, years later! ("Better late than never".)
That's where C# is now, isn't it? Java has 5.5 years of advantage. Or do you think that Micro$haft is going to make a Miracle and produce in an instant a masterpiece of programming language that needs no further revision, in version 1.0 of C#!?
"Inquiring minds want to know!". Actually, "inquiring minds already know!".
BTW, C# == d flat (in music).
 
Roseanne Zhang
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I consider that C# is not going to replace Java is because of the selfish mind of Micro$oft. They just want the MSWindows to dominate the world, that mind set will doom the fate of C#.
Technically, C# could be better than Java. That is simply because C# is a copycat of Java, but solved some problems of Java. History often repeats itself. JSP was a copycat of ASP, but it is better now. MSWindows is a copycat of MAC windows, but it succeeded. There are some other famous examples, which most probably you've already known...
Just some my own very controvertial thinking, and that is not necessary right either ...
Roseanne
 
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Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Where were you in the Fall of 1995? I was downloading the first JDK from Sun (I don't remember if it was an alpha or a beta version!)
That's where C# is now, isn't it? Java has 5.5 years of advantage. Or do you think that Micro$haft is going to make a Miracle and produce in an instant a masterpiece of programming language that needs no further revision, in version 1.0 of C#!?


Mmmm... 1995... downloading the first JDK from Sun, and wishing I could run it on my v1.0 linux partition I'd been using since v0.99pl64 or so... how many cool points do I get now?
But, unfortunately, Micro$haft is not making version 1.0 of C#. In C#, it is branching off 1.2 of Java and it will probably be very good seeing that it always takes Microsoft a couple of versions to compromise good foundations (witness Windows NT).

BTW, C# == d flat (in music).


Only if you are using equal temperament! Me, I'm not equal-tempered; not to be confused with well-tempered, as in Wohltemperiertes Klavier. Now, Bach...
- Peter

[This message has been edited by Peter den Haan (edited February 24, 2001).]
 
Tony Alicea
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"Only if you are using equal temperament..."
See what I get for not being complete? This is the second time in Javaranch I call the attention to the fact that C# == d flat.
In the pervious mention I was purposely explicit in the fact that the statement was assuming a regular PIANO keyboard.
I don't know how to play instruments like the Sitar but I am aware of what you said.
So, C# could also be called D flat! As in too little too late. A dollar short and a day too late.
Kudos to the guys and dolls who invented what Micro$haft is now trying to imitate. They say that imitation is the best form of flattery. So Sun Microsystems wins.
 
Laojar Chuger
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Hi! I like you guys and decide to call it D__ or J--. BTW, I was in Ithaca in the fall of 1995 and life was horrible without knowing Java.
 
Greenhorn
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I haven't played with C#, but I've read a lot about it. I was deciding what platform to use for an e-commerce site I'm building, and after looking into ASP, ASP+ (now called ASP.NET, I believe), and the overall .NET platform, I decided to go with JavaServer Pages, mainly because it is available now, stable, elegantly designed (you use Java for everything, unlike ASP where you typically use VBScript for programming and C++/ATL for components), and not in such a state of flux as is the whole ASP/.NET thing. If I used ASP, I didn't know whether I should do it now in regular ASP, or wait for ASP.NET and hope it isn't hopelessly late and/or buggy (Microsoft has burned me before). In the end, it was an easy decision to go with JavaServer Pages.
C# is a decent language. Certainly a nice step up from VBScript or JScript (the typical, but not only, languages used for ASP). In some ways, I think it is less elegantly designed than Java, and of course it doesn't offer any cross-platform capability at all (which is one thing I really appreciate about Java).
I don't like the whole IDL (Interface Definition Language) mess you have to go through to connect components in .NET. JavaBeans is so much cleaner. In the end, the OLE/COM architecture is getting another facelift, but it'll still be a nightmare of complexity and headaches.
The most interesting thing I've read about C# is the surveys of which developers are interested. Before I tell you, think of who you would expect to be interested...
Ready for the answer? It's Visual Basic programmers. On various surveys, only 5-20% of C, C++, and Java programmers say they're interested in C#. But Visual Basic programmers weigh in with numbers like 60% and up interested. They probably feel left out by the snobbish C++ and Java programmers (not those in this forum, of course) who look down their noses at Visual Basic programmers.
The implication of this is rather unfortunate for Microsoft--they're going to all this trouble to create a Windows-only Java killer (presumably to get all those wayward Java developers onto the Microsoft platform), and the only people showing any interest are the dyed-in-the-wool Microsoft Visual Basic programmers. Talk about preaching to the choir!
 
Thomas Paul
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The fact that VB programmers are interested doesn't surprise me. After all, you would have to be a MicroSoft zombie to want to waste your life coding in VB.
Actually, most C++ programmers are very happy with C++ and don't feel a need for C++++. Java programmers will never go to an inferior language like Java--. We can talk about C# being an attack on Java but it's real purpose is to keep the choir happy since the pressure to move to the open architecture world must be getting fairly intense even in MS shops. I know in the Java class I teach I am seeing more VB programmers and less COBOL programmers.
 
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C#??? That's just Java without the advantages!!
Should we feel threatened by C#? Alternatively does the similarities between it and Java mean that our prior and continuing investment in 0O the Java way is protected?

------------------
Regards,
Dave
 
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Hi,
I have read little abt C#. I like one thing abt it that C#, VB7 (I guess VB.NET), ASP.NET, C++. This all languages will be on based on commone API set and common platform i.e. ->.NET. So u can use some of ur code of VB into C#.
But other hand, I don't Microsoft.NET is not cross platform(Independent of Languages but not of platform).

Thanks
Angela
 
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With VB fading and J++ gone before it started Micro$oft had to give its leagons a programming language that:
A) Could be used as a buzzword on a resume.
B) as Tomas Paul stated "...keep the choir happy since the pressure to move to the open architecture world must be getting fairly intense even in MS shops".
C) Enable spokesmen to say "well .NET will work with java BUT runs best with C#.
I agree that C++ programmers are more happy with C++. Otherwise they would be coding in JAVA�
"Right once with text editor, compile, run anywhere" and �Right once with text editor, compile, link, execute anywhere.� Is a lot better than�
�Right source with expensive IDE, Compile, Debug Compiler, Get fixpack for IDE, Compile, get fixpack for operating system, compile, run on single platform until PC needs to be rebooted due to OS inability to handle workload.�
Personally, I am going to continue on focused learning in Java.
 
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But the pro of C# is that using it for UI development will be much easier than using Java. And It may be faster for loading the UI. Actually I don't know much about but just reading some document. But I think it somehow copy Java and reuse it...
As being a Java supporter, no quite impressed...
But I think Sun should improve the Swing component or the ui part of JAVA to enhance its power.
Any Idea...
 
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Hi,
Just wondering if Microsoft would also be coming out with Patterns like we have one specific with Java.I believe, Microsoft is silent on this till now.But it they want developer to write proper OO code, I think they will have to jump into it.
-- Sandeep
 
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