Am I right?

[Francis Amanfo]

Hi Elisabeth et al,

I have read the sample chapter (chapter 3) of your book and I would like to confess that it's very well written. I have the GoF book but still thirsty to have this book too. I think this book will refresh my knowledge and help me do better explanation to others, especially junior developers, about these patterns.

Most of the useful patterns are already implemented in frameworks such as Swing, Struts, Tapestry, Spring, EJB, and even the JDK (example, the java.io package as you described in chapter 3) and that developers use these daily, some without being conscious of it. My question is how often in practice will developers need to (if they even have to) implement some of these patterns if the foundation upon which they are building already provides clean implementation of these (for example, in Spring you don't need to implement the Singleton pattern. The framework creates it automatically if you need it.)

I would however mention that understanding these patterns helps tremendously in understanding these frameworks, like you demonstrated in chapter 3 to demystify the the java.io package. Therefore I think this book is a must have. I have already made room for it in my bookshelf and hopefully I can grab a copy here or else purchase one from the bookstore.

Regards,

Francis

[ December 01, 2004: Message edited by: Francis Amanfo ]

[ December 01, 2004: Message edited by: Francis Amanfo ]
[ December 01, 2004: Message edited by: Francis Amanfo ]

[Ilja Preuss]

Well, as long as you still need to write code, you will find Design Patterns to be helpfull in deciding what structure to give it...

[Francis Amanfo]

Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
Well, as long as you still need to write code, you will find Design Patterns to be helpfull in deciding what structure to give it...

Well, I don't agree completely. The fact that you need to write code doesn't mean you HAVE to implement design patterns. It depends on several factors such as in which environment you're building your application. Many frameworks (J2EE, Swing) already implement some patterns thereby dictating forehand the structure your application must have.

Regards,

Francis

[Elisabeth Robson]

Francis,

You're right that the framework you are using often will dictate how you structure your code. If not dictate, at least guide. For instance, it's hard to write a GUI using Swing without using the Observer Pattern

However, there may be times when you'll be writing a system from scratch, or have to add a whole new subsystem yourself and then you may find you want to use Patterns in your design.

And, I think it can really help your understanding of how frameworks are structured if you understand the patterns they use in their design.

Elisabeth
[ December 01, 2004: Message edited by: Elisabeth Freeman ]

[Ilja Preuss]

Originally posted by Elisabeth Freeman:
it's hard to write a GUI using Swing without using the Observer Pattern

Yes, but that doesn't mean that the other patterns suddenly become useless. I actually regularly use the Strategy pattern in my Swing classes, for example.

[Mike Farnham]

Well, I don't agree completely. The fact that you need to write code doesn't mean you HAVE to implement design patterns.

You are correct in saying you don't HAVE to use design patterns, but if you recognize the applicability of a design pattern and don't use it, I would say you are behaving foolishly.

It depends on several factors

Standard consultant answer.

such as in which environment you're building your application. Many frameworks (J2EE, Swing) already implement some patterns thereby dictating forehand the structure your application must have.

I agree on the mitigating factors. The Framework might prevent you from using certains patterns. For example, the current portal we develop under prevents the use of MVC because it implements MVC. You are allowed to control/provide the M and the V, but don't have as much say in the C. This does not and did not preclude us from using other patterns.

Cheers,
Mike

[Michael Sullivan]

Mike, what portal solution are you developing under? (websphere?)

Thanks