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steb

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since Mar 07, 2001
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Recent posts by steb

Future of Java? An academic language, an excellent training tool. The one which will help students to learn OOP, and other modern techniques (paradigms?).
Nice language, excellent API, but not been used in the field for
a host of problems and better competitors.
A replacement for Pascal, in other words.
If you want to stay in academia, think in Java. If you want to do the REAL things, think in C++.
19 years ago
You are right, it's somewhere between (useless) <-> (gets you to an interview). Today, with all those jobless Java programmers with 4+ years of expereience wandering around, the value of Java certification quickly diminshes. I think that Sun realizes this, and they will come out with some recertification scheme, to retire old titles and exams, and to install new ones which ought to be harder to pass to reduce the number of certified folks.
And, once current exams gets phased out, the old SCJP, SCJD and SCJA will become not certified, but certifiable
19 years ago
Of course NOT Java. Anything but it.
Java is dead product. Just look what have happened with it
over the last 5 years or so:
1) Java was invented as a language and OS to program embedded systems. This didn't work. The majority of embedded systems are still being programmed in C, C++, and yes Basic.
2) Then Sun tried to reposition Java as a tool for writing desktop applications. This didn't work either. It was too slow for desktop users who are accustomed to much faster GUI apps like Word or Excel.
3) Java was tried as a language for middleware: J2EE and such. It have had some considerable success there. Unfortunately Microsoft is coming full speed with a better suit of middleware products: dotNET, C# (which is "better" Java), next SQL Server etc. Sun's going to have hard time competing against M$.
4) With J2ME, Java now comes full circle back to the embeded systems market were it was born. Well, it's going to failure again, as native code C apps always beat crap out of slow interpretive bytecode ones.
(Note how I omitted the Web. Considering the continuing dotcom fallout, and quickly squeezing market for Web tools, I don't think there will be any place left for JSP jockeys. With perl, ColdFusion, or ASP you can get a site up and running much faster.)
So, taking into account that you have alot of number crunching experience, I would advise to pursue that field.

[This message has been edited by steb (edited July 25, 2001).]
19 years ago
Serezha,
the ERP and embedded-systems IT sectors are still going.
Fortunately they both more-or-less are ignorant of Java (and VB) - so there's not whole lot competition from dead-dot-com comrades.
Embedded-systems job market requires mostly C and C++ (and sometimes Ada, but that's only for folks with citizenship). Embedded Java and JavaME are something to laugh at, not to work with.
The ERP tools are Oracle Applications (some Java), SAP R/3, Peoplesoft.
Decide what suits you best, then jump!

[This message has been edited by steb (edited July 24, 2001).]
19 years ago
Hey Mr Fisherman here is another link for you:
http://www.thestandard.com/trackers/layoff/
Just do a simple math, and keep in mind those 15 to 20 thousand that Lucent is going to layoff today or tomorrow. Consider that most IT companies are on hiring freeze now. How many do you think are competing for few vacant places? Take our neighbor company as an example: they posted a Java position on dice.com (nothing fancy, the only req was 1+ year of Java plus a database exp'nce) last week. Guess how many resumes they got? about four hundred! And we are located not in a metro area or near, but in a small town of 5000+ population, in a middle of nowhere. Have all these Java folks who sent the resumes looked at the map at all? Or were they so desperate to find a job that they didn't have time for geography?
Nothing can prohibit you or anyone from restless self-assuring and labeling everyone who can't find a job to be a loser. Except maybe for a reality check.
19 years ago

Originally posted by John Coxey:

Don't worry about what others are saying about IT being dead - because it isn't.


yeah. dream on, buddy.
here, read this: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010716/tc/bizeconomy_employment_dc_1.html
19 years ago
ellen,
Java certification will help to get you to the interview. But then it's up to you to prove them that they need you badly.
On the other hand, if you have an Oracle DBA certificate, you are in a different position: Oracle certification is much more involving (there 4 or 5 exams, AFAIC) than Java's one, so having Oracle gives you more credibility, provided you have some experience. Besides, database administration and software development are two different kinds of job.

Originally posted by ellen berry:
Hi, gus:
Since the market is too bad, do you think the certification is useful to get the job? How about java certification or oracle 8i DBA? I am a student right now. I have no experence in IT area. Please give me some advice.

Thanks
ellen


19 years ago
Christopher,
I'm not sure if I made myself clear, but let me repeat my question: "would you mind sharing your recent expirience of a job search?" In other words, have you been out there going through interviews during, say, last four or six months?
Please don't mention any experience which has happened more than year ago. We all now, myself including, how well the job market has been back then. The real waves of layoffs have started coming approximately fall last year.
Finding a job last summer was relatievly easy. By some coincidence that's exactly when I switched jobs last time. Finding a job today isn't impossible, but close to it. Many companies went throough layoffs, some through more than one. That's why there is an excessive supply of IT workers on the market. If you can't find a job, it's not because you're unqualified or unfit for it. More likely it's because you have a very small chance, competing against other 10+ candidates who all have resumes twice longer than yours...

Originally posted by christopher foran:
steb http://www.javaranch.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000810.html
It seems like at least two people are planning on getting jobs.


19 years ago
There're two purposes of Java certification, among others, that can help you to find a job.
Firstly, certifications helps your resume to be selected from the pile of similar looking ones. Let's be honest. There are thousands jobless unemployed Java coders out there (some of them are in India and China) hunting for job at this very moment. The next day after we posted an Java job ad on dice, out HR manager has ran out of disk space : his inbox was overflown with letters and resumes! You certify to get ahead of the crowd, to have your resume be selected.
Secondly, on a technical interview, if questioned about Java, you can skip the basic questions and proceed directly to the stuff that matters (and thus save yourself from possible humiliation if asked on topics that you haven't used for awhile). Sometimes it may help to make a 180 turn : that is, you instead of them the one who's asking questions, and offering topics for discussions.
19 years ago
Christopher,
would you mind sharing your recent expirience of a job search? If there's none, then what you said is just an empty statement.

Originally posted by christopher foran:

I'd say, if you are a fresh C.S. grad, forget about the job. Do something else. IT job market is pretty much dead now for people even with 5+ years of hands-on expereience.


Very silly comment. Getting a job may be a little harder but there is no way the field is "dead"!


19 years ago
I'd say, if you are a fresh C.S. grad, forget about the job. Do something else. IT job market is pretty much dead now for people even with 5+ years of hands-on expereience.
What follows are rules that my brother followed when he was looking for job recently. He got 3 offers out of about 10 leads. He's Java "guru", he's working with Java technologies since 1996.
1) Knock on doors! That means: send out unsolicited resumes. If you're lucky, you'll slip in that short time period when a request for add'l resource has been issued, but the job ad hasn't been posted yet.
2) Use Email and web to submit your resume. No paper (except when the ad says so).
3) Forget about MS-Word. Most companies want resumes in plain ASCII. It's not because they are picky,, it's just for them to keep resumes parsed and in databases. One HR manager told my brother that when he sees an MS-Word attachment, he just drops it into the windows recycle basket - so much people are affraid of macro viruses that come in MS-Word files!
4) Get on an OpenSource project. When done, put it on your resume. Don't mention it was an OpenSource. Let it look like it was just a regular commercial stuff.
5) Try to move outside of Java. Best bet is C++. Second one is any kind of ERP: SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle Financials, etc.
6) Wear suit AND tie when going to an interview. A MUST! Don't listen to other people who say that they prefer to be judged by his knowledge and experience (by the way, these people DO wear suits on interviews). Remember: your look DOES MATTER. Choosing a right tie helps too.
7) If you put your resume to places like dice or monter, put alot (I mean like 100 or 150) words 'JAVA' into the "Keyword" section, or at the end of yer resume. Reason being, when headhunter looks for a resume there by a keyword, the resumes are sorted by the number of times the keyword occures in the text. Don't forget, headhunters usually pick top 10 or 20 off the whole list! Even though more and more poeple have discovered this trick, it could help you too.
P.S. FYI my brother is a naturalized U.S. citizen, although he speeks English quite poorly.
19 years ago
I'd like to add my .02c to this H1B discussion. (and maybe throw some more oil into the fire)
I think that the current sitation of H1Bs replacing and squeezing out US-native IT workforce is partially a fault of this workforce itself. You see, there is no H1B issue with workers of auto industry, as well as, say, steel, or oil industries. The reason for that is these sectors have unionized workers, and the unions have been quite successfull in protecting job market. (Though they couldn't do anything about migrating whole plants abroad, but that's another story). Why the IT workers are not unionized? It's because they are too greedy to think about themselves as a whole. The X-generation folks which constitute the majority of current IT workers have been raised on the principle of immediate gratification, and thus they have been unable or too lazy otherwise to think about the future, and to take measures to protect their job markets. They were too busy earning their six-digits incomes (and busy spending them too!) So now they complain that the jobs are taken away, and there is noone to protect their interests! Note how they blame everyone but themselves! They blame the congress for pro-immigration laws, they blame large and small corporations for bringing workers in, they even blame us Indian and Chinese programmers (who often work 12 and 14 hours a day as compared to an average 40-hours/week corporate coder Joe)! It is just amazing how some people are unable to recognize that they ought to look into a mirror to find the roots of their problems!
You want Java jobs? You want back your job security? Stop wining! Get unionized! Make your voice heard!

[This message has been edited by steb (edited June 15, 2001).]
19 years ago