Pranav Jaidka

Originally posted by Pakka Desi:

I guess, I was not wrong after all, Pranav

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.......sorry pakka... :roll: Dont knwo what i was thinking.........
However if you make out what the context of the Dips was......please let me know....
Map I guess Americanism is not what we can figure out here. B Grade movies anyone ???
[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]
[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

Originally posted by Pakka Desi:

US an Pak can never work as cohesively as US and India can. Somehow this is lost on the policy makers of the US.

Pakka ......not completely true.......the policy makers in the US are smart.......and helpless at times. Thats why they had to remove sanctions.
However every pakistani citizen is required to register himself in the US !!! right ??
So its not that they dont realize whats going on.........its only that they change with the situation.......for their own benefit.

It seems to me what you are most upset about is that we have lifted sanctions on Pakistan.
Yes Jason you hit the nail on the head here......because even though you dont realise it ..this reward in exchange for cooperation..... or the money which is made from Trade and the profits which are made are then directed to support terrorism (As I think even the US has also experienced ).
And now not Deviating from the topic ....judging from the past few posts ..I guess Americanism ..or for that matter .....Indianism....or Iraqism...what whatever 'ism' can then be defined as being selfish in order to obtain whatever motive or goal profitable for ones own state ......WITHOUT any altruistic motive in mind. No thought should be given if people die in a different country if my own state profits. Right ??
[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

China's leaders are criminals. They have violated the UN charter and if they weren't leaders of such a powerful country they would be arrested for the murders they committed in Tiananmen Square.
China does treat their citizens like slaves denying Catholics, for example, the right to practice their religion. They did use political prisoners as slaves in their factories and only stopped when the US threatened to stop accepting imports.

Thomas Just curious What do you instruct at the university ??
Also according to the beliefs that you follow it seems to me that the only way the US mediates is 'Sanctions' if it cannot gain anything from the country or 'War and sanctions' if it can gain something.
As an example ...China ,India,Pakistan ,Iraq and now N Korea.....of course you lifted sanctions on pakistan and also went to war there even if it was not against that country.
What purpose do sanctions serve according to you Thomas when you lift or impose them as it is convenient for you?? Where is the UN involved??

Has it occured to you that Sanctions May not directly effect the people that you need to change......for example........Im sure the people responsible for the Tiananmen square massacre would probably still drive good cars and not care about sanctions. Also Mr Saddam Hussain who you people so fiercely consider and enemy of the state......does not care a hoot about what sanctions are imposed. However around half a million people may have died as a direct result of these sanctions which you consider were effective in 'Catholic rejuvination' In china ???
Do you mean that we must love other countries even if they have policies that are inhuman? And when we do treat countries like China without regards to their human rights violations, we get complaints for that.
Tsk Tsk .....Thomas...........no Dont love or Hate any country .....Just leave them alone .The complaints you get are from imposing sanctions /removing them according to your whims and fantasies..... As an indian I did not care about the sanctions .......but I did care when it was lifted from two countries just because of your selfish reasons. Be equal with your foreign policies.
[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

ha ha ha......sorry.....I did nto mean to offend any community .....I should have written saggi/taurus/leo...and so on.........only problem was that Im not too good with star signs , so am not too sure if I can reproduce all of them here...it would involve research on the internet ....which I already claimed I did not do.
[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

You know a person is/are a/an _________ if he/she..............
1) Puts lipstick on the forehead because he wants to makeup his mind.
2) Gets stabbed in a shoot-out
3)Sends a fax with a postage stamp on it
4) Tries to drown a fish in water
5)Thinks socialism means partying
6) Trips over a cordless phone
7)Takes a ruler to bed to see how long he slept
8)At the bottom of the application where it says "Sign Here" he puts "Sagittarius"
9)Studies for a blood test and fails
10)Sells the car for gas money
11)Misses the 44 bus, and takes the 22 twice instead
12)Drives to the airport and sees a sign that said "Airport left", he turns around and goes home
13)ets locked in a furniture shop and sleeps on the floor
Disclaimer lease not all effort has been made not to offend any particular community. No verification was done on the internet before posting this and the poster admits that hes just posting this because he finds it funny.

Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:

Indian government did a good job in negotiating with airplane hijackers

Frankly , Abadula ...I dont agree with you there. Its a disgrace if all the hijackers are allowed to get away . A couple of lives would have been lost there .But its riduculous to say that these hijackers will not kill again . In the long run I think the Russian handling was much better than the Indians handling the hijack.

Originally posted by Jason Menard:

I just fail to see any significance to the fact.

I know Jason.

Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka

Would that not mean that the Indian democracy works better than the US democracy ??

Originally posted by Jason Menard

You are correct, that would not mean that.

That wasnt a statement Jason. It was a question . Your english needs improvement(In English anything that ends in the sign '?' is considered a question not a statement !!!).So Im assuming that youre kind of confused about what people are trying to tell you .
:roll:
[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:

Get back to me when airplanes start dropping on your major cities. Get back to me when the Christians there express their desire to wipe out every Hindu in the country and show that they are willing to carry it through and posess the resources to start making good on those threats. Get back to me when Christians start killing Hindus all over the world in the name of Christianity.
People can view absolutely anything they'd like as a threat. There is however a difference between a credible threat and a less than credible threat.
At least now you admit you view conversion as a threat to your culture and identity, and no longer profess to be looking after the best interests of the disenfranchised.

Jason you missed it when I said that inspite of 500 years of foreign rule we are still 85% Hindu . However ,yes some people may perceive this as a threat.Im not denying that .
Yes Sir there is a difference between a less credible threat and a more credible one. Maybe its more credible in the US .
Wasnt your post a confession that inspite of the problems in India we still dont have people trying to bomb us with airplanes and try to kill Hindus all over . At least you confess that people are finding problems with Americans and are trying to bomb the hell out of the Christians in US ??? In that case you should worry about atrocities on Christians in the US first .
Also would that not mean that India is still more tolerant and outsiders are more tolerant to what happens in India than in the US ???
Would that not mean that the Indian democracy works better than the US democracy ??
What does that mean Jason ?? What does it mean?? Does that mean Hindus are at fault for what happens in India and Muslims are at fault for what happens in US ?? And the Christians are just being suppressed and tormented in countries where they are in Minority and also where they are in Majority !!
[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
[QB]
Although personally I think it is high time that Muslim scholars take an introspective look and see what if anything there is in Islam that allows it to be twisted and used to fuel hate on such an widespread level.
It may be fast approaching the time when non-Muslims on a large scale may begin to draw the conclusion that Islam itself is somehow a threat to peace, and such a widespread conclusion would only cause more problems
QB]

Now Jason is it possible that can happen with another religion . For Example Christianity in India ??
Is it possible that Non Chrisitians(Hindus in this case) start taking Christianity as a threat because of the methods used. Not that it matters because India has had over 500 years of foreign rule and is still 85% Hindu......surprising right??

Jason I can say nothing more than has already been said. And the reason you did not get answers to your questions earlier was because most people would have thought those 'Questions' to be a conclusion to the arguments you presented before.
For you "Force" means physical force. For me it means anything done to put pressure on the other person to break him into submission..... For example a demand for Ransom by kidnappers also amounts to Force . Often times this kind of 'Force' is taken as a threat to society because the motives are unclear and selfish. As another Example :-
US imposes Sanctions on India/Pakistan . That is force ....However the US removes Sanctions on Pakistan and India in return for support for forces in afghanistan .... Pakistan attains economic relief and decides to help the US knowing that it would cause unrest among its own people. Under No Circumstances would a Pro Taliban govt make such a complete turnaround on its policies unless it was under pressure to
Also there is probably been some mismatch in what we are arguing for ..........I have always argued for the methods of conversion being wrong(I posted earlier too that my belief of a fair conversion would be education about the religion and then leavign the choice to the possible convert). You have always argued that the end result is wrong.
All im trying to say is that it can all be avoided in India. But since India is a very volatile society (which more often than not lives in peace) where a few misguided individuals can blow an incident out of proportion .You and Thomas 'may ' not know the true picture of whats going on . It boils down a million other issues like Media coverage in the West . One such indident in india is blown out of proportion in the West because of the "SHOCK VALUE " of the News. As another Example here what the Sniper episode resulted in .
NewsMan to Guest at Studio: Sir do you know this Sniper converted to Islam 17 years ago.
Guest: Yes I do.
Newsman : Do you think this has anything to do with the killing spree.
Guest : No I dont .Its unfair to equate these two together.
Newsman : But thats impossible .How is it possible that he was quiet for 17 years and suddenly a year after September 11th he starts with this .
(And before you know it they have to go on a short break)
Thoughts can be planted Jason. People can be made to "think" in a certain way. You and I are perfect examples. Both stand firm to their beliefs.
This may seem out of context to you . But if you think about the American Psyche it makes sense in this discussion too. Most often people will not get the complet picture and jump to a conclusion based on what they see or hear.
Some other people decide never to step foot out of their country.(Reminds me of a story of a frog in the well )

Hope Im making sense because frankly im getting tired of this discussion and would seriously want this thread closed.
[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Since you have all made it clear that you don't want Thomas there (you're afraid he might hurt your feelings), and if I can draw an analogy with something I believe P. Dessi said earlier, if Thomas does decide to travel there, it's at his own risk and he pretty much deserves anything that may happen to him, since he knows he is not wanted there?

3 Guesses for Who these people are that I am trying to talk about :
a) "Yes Thomas youre right"
b) "Yes Jason youre right"
Ha ha ha
I follow this up with a smiley face just to indicate that Im not serious......

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I don't see any point to this discussion anymore. We are going over the same ground.
I have learned one good thing from this. I will never go to India. Who wants to visit a country where people think its OK to attack someone for insulting them?
[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

Thomas Paul : You just defeated the purpose of your argument all along . And yeah after this post you should not post in this thread at all.
Have a great Life in your country .

Originally posted by Jason Menard:

Your ability to interpret seems challenged. Again, let me help you out. I first claimed that my knowledge of India was very finite. I then went on to say the issues we are talking about have little to do with India and in fact transcend national boundaries. Try to comprehend this because it seems a difficult concept for you: these are moral issues that are universal regardless of location. We are debating moral absolutes and you are trying to say they don't apply to you. Nobody is buying that.

Jason posting last is not like playing Tag ......He who posts the last reply does not win the argument.
It is a ridiculous argument that 'Moral Absolutes' transcend geographical locations when no one in this thread has denied Murder Is wrong. Why are you even talking about this . It was you alone who cleverly proved that since you do not shout out loud that Murder is Wrong you support it.
And you say My ability to interpret is challenged !!! :roll:
[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Pranav Jaidka ]